KOE Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 To all those out there that are in 2 minds whether to desex your larger breed prior to 12 months of age please go and look at the GSD. He is 7.5 months already desexed and is very well put together. He does not appear to be oversized, lacking in substance or spindley. There are those that are dead set against early desexing, and try to get people to think their way and there is just no changing their minds, as they are set in their mindsight. But for the others please look at this dog and think of desexing your puppies if not going to show homes and maybe just maybe then the numbers put in pounds and rescue will eventually decrease. http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/221844-german-shepherd-purebred-pup-75mths/page__view__getnewpost__fromsearch__1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) and read his story he is looking for a new family. Edited June 11, 2011 by KOE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmkelpie Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) I appreciate that you are trying to encourage people to desex to reduce unwanted litters, however one dog that is 'well put together' is hardly substantial evidence that early desexing has no consequences Edit to add: he is gorgeous hoping he finds his forever home!! Edited June 11, 2011 by cmkelpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 That's just one dog Not sure I quite understand how that refutes the argument that large breeds should only be desexed over 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I dont understand- Bitches having a uterus, dogs having testicles does not add to the number of dogs in pound/rescue... Irresponsible owners not keeping said entire animals from having litters but them being entire does not inherently cause them to have puppies. Further I think it is Australian Society's lack of emphasis on pets being a privilege that should be cherished, rather than a right and object that can be disposed of has a far greater effect on pound numbers. I always advocate people to look at their own situation- can they contain/supervise an entire animal till 18mths before the desex. If not they should desex. Although I would also point out if they can not do that then why are they getting a dog because their containment is clearly not adequate and they should invest in a stuffed toy instead...... (disclaimer- I know some bitches that have gone through garage doors so do make it difficult but people have still managed to stop them from becoming pregnant, either through careful supervision or desexing) I dont think emotion should really come into this debate at all- rather the individual situation of each dog and family that they live in. I am not against early desexing for individuals that chose to do it, but I also do not think people should be made feel like it is the only way to solve a very complex issue. I hope this boy finds a loving forever home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 One dog that has not by any stretch reached maturity. I think there are as many closed minds on the other side of the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 At 7.5 months he's not finished growing yet... looks great right now, but I'd be reserving judgement that indicates anything until he's fully grown at about 3 years old... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngeK Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 But for the others please look at this dog and think of desexing your puppies if not going to show homes and maybe just maybe then the numbers put in pounds and rescue will eventually decrease. that will NOT happen by just desexing animals! Responsible people will not just breed with their dogs for fun or because the kids like a litter, or because their own dog has such a good nature or whatever reason. The people that will breed now for those reasons will keep doing that no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) At 7.5 months he's not finished growing yet... looks great right now, but I'd be reserving judgement that indicates anything until he's fully grown at about 3 years old... This. Also, the front looks OK, but it's hard to assess a dog that isn't standing. This is also a medium to large breed, but not one of the large sighthound or giant or molosser breeds that have a lot of long and/or big bone to grow into. Edit: Also, I am not a zealot about this. If the dog is not going to be asked to compete in performance events or keep up with a family of mountain hikers or cross country runners, then I don't think it's a huge drama to desex. However, I also think it's a reasonable decision not to. Edited June 11, 2011 by SkySoaringMagpie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortstep Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Take a look at this site as they have a done a very good job of discribing the risks and bennfits. I do hope that with this breed and it's history of hip and other joint problems that the negative effects of early desexing and theincreased risk of HD will be expalined to the potential adoptors (as would be expected of the breeder). http://www.greydove.com.au/desexing.cfm Here is just the bit on bones and joints, but the whole page is worth a good read. Orthopedic Disorders In a study of beagles, surgical removal of the ovaries (as happens in spaying) caused an increase in the rate of remodeling of the ilium (pelvic bone)47, suggesting an increased risk of hip dysplasia with spaying. Spaying was also found to cause a net loss of bone mass in the spine 48. Spay/neuter of immature dogs delays the closure of the growth plates in bones that are still growing, causing those bones to end up significantly longer than in intact dogs or those spay/neutered after maturity. Since the growth plates in various bones close at different times, spay/neuter that is done after some growth plates have closed but before other growth plates have closed can result in a dog with unnatural proportions, possibly impacting performance and long term durability of the joints. Spay/neuter is associated with a two fold increased risk of cranial cruciate ligament rupture50. Perhaps this is associated with the increased risk of obesity29 or to changes in body proportions in dogs spay/neutered before the growth plates in the bones have closed49. Spay/neuter before 5 ½ months of age is associated with a 70% increased aged-adjusted risk of hip dysplasia compared to dogs spayed/neutered after 5 ½ months of age41. The researchers suggest “it is possible that the increase in bone length that results from early-age gonadectomy results in changes in joint conformation, which could lead to a diagnosis of hip dysplasia”. In a breed health survey study of Airedales, spay/neuter dogs were significantly more likely to suffer hip dysplasia as well as “any musculoskeletal disorder”, compared to intact dogs51, however possible confounding factors were not controlled for, such as the possibility that some dogs might have been spayed/neutered because they had hip dysplasia or other musculoskeletal disorders. Compared to intact dogs, another study found that dogs neutered six months prior to a diagnosis of hip dysplasia were 1.5 times as likely to develop clinical hip dysplasia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 To all those out there that are in 2 minds whether to desex your larger breed prior to 12 months of age please go and look at the GSD. He is 7.5 months already desexed and is very well put together. He does not appear to be oversized, lacking in substance or spindley He is only a baby and he has alot of maturing to do. When was he desexed? He may of only just been desexed last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 KOE this pup will not look spindly or anything at present, as he still has his puppy shape .. and is still growing. He looks a lovely boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 One dog will not change my view on early desexing - as said already, that dog whilst stunning is still a pup, he has a long time to go before he can be a poster dog for early desexing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) At 7.5 months he's not finished growing yet... looks great right now, but I'd be reserving judgement that indicates anything until he's fully grown at about 3 years old... This. Also, the front looks OK, but it's hard to assess a dog that isn't standing. This is also a medium to large breed, but not one of the large sighthound or giant or molosser breeds that have a lot of long and/or big bone to grow into. Edit: Also, I am not a zealot about this. If the dog is not going to be asked to compete in performance events or keep up with a family of mountain hikers or cross country runners, then I don't think it's a huge drama to desex. However, I also think it's a reasonable decision not to. How do you know what the dogs life style will be? If a dog is desexed early and has sedate lifestyle and say at ~7.5months old is looking for a new home - it could be in for a very active lifestyle - say keeping up with a family who are in to mountain hiking or cross country running. We can not predict where dogs will end up if family situations change so much that they are forced to rehome pets but we can give their bodies the best chance to allow them a better healthier life beyond their younger years. eta: we also do not know when the dog advertised was desexed. Edited June 11, 2011 by Andisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 How do you know what the dogs life style will be? If a dog is desexed early and has sedate lifestyle and say at ~7.5months old is looking for a new home - it could be in for a very active lifestyle - say keeping up with a family who are in to mountain hiking or cross country running. We can not predict where dogs will end up if family situations change so much that they are forced to rehome pets but we can give their bodies the best chance to allow them a better healthier life beyond their younger years. OK, I'm sure we agree on this: that it is the responsibility of anyone who homes a dog to assess the dog in front of them and make a judgement about whether to home to any specific home. Part of that assessment should be the structure of the dog (whether purebreed or not), the family lifestyle and any sporting expectations. Another responsibility is to ensure the person understands that if they can't keep it, that it should come back to the rescue/breeder. A dog is for life, and all that. Against that background I don't have a problem with someone homing a dog that is not completely sound to someone who takes it for a walk to the shops every day and otherwise lets it self-exercise in the yard, providing they say to the person "this dog is not suitable for performance work". I think that's a better option than putting it down, which is the logical extension of you saying we shouldn't home any dog that can't fit a peak performance lifestyle. I would have a problem with someone homing that same dog into an agility home and I would have a problem with a breeder selling a desexed 8 week old as an agility prospect. I personally choose not to desex my dogs. However, I have the patience and infrastructure to manage entire dogs, and even then it's not always been easy. A neutered dog has a clear status before the eyes of the local council and anyone looking for a dog to BYB or farm with is going to pass them by. When done early, it usually also modifies behavioural problems that your average Joe finds embarrassing and hard to manage. I am not going to blame people who have an average lifestyle for neutering, even tho' I wouldn't do it myself. As for the GSD in the original post, there is no way I would be suggesting any dog for an active or performance home without seeing its rear construction both standing naturally and on the move - but that goes double for a GSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I've seen dogs desexed at 6 months that turn out normally, as well as dogs that turn out lanky. My own dog was desexed at 5 months and has turned out to be tall and lanky, however it is hard to tell if this is her natural build or the result of early desexing (some of her littermates were also tall and lean). Generally it is only mutts and small breeds that are desexed at 8 weeks- in pounds or at the breeders discretion, so in the case of mutts it is impossible to tell how they would have turned out otherwise. I don't know what posting about this young GSD proves? as other have said he is only one dog and nowhere near fully mature and the shots of him aren't exactly the best to evaluate conformation. He looks like a lovely dog though and I hope he finds a great home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 To all those out there that are in 2 minds whether to desex your larger breed prior to 12 months of age please go and look at the GSD. He is 7.5 months already desexed and is very well put together. He does not appear to be oversized, lacking in substance or spindley. He hasn't finished growing yet nor is he a bulky or heavy breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 n = 1 is pretty meaningless. He is a nice looking dog, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetSitters Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Personally, I have found male GSD's who have been desexed early by 4 or 5 years old have an odd shape about them, like a fullness behind the rib area with no tummy tuck compared with an entire male or one desexed around 18 months. It's hard to explain the "look" I have noticed, but I can generally tell which males have been desexed early once they are fully matured there is a definite strange shape about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajtek Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 2 of my bullie girls were desexed at 6 months with no health impact. Maybe I was lucky (My ff boy was over 2yo when desexed) Would I desex early again? YEP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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