Breeder Not Happy With My Questions

[Bubitty]

Is my experience that asking a breeder how many they have is like asking for them to run a mile.

I asked this!

hehehe I even tried to tactfully (or so I thought!) check out a few of their dogs but they caught on and knew I was a nutter so they brought out EVERY single dog they owned and let me look at them! They also locked me in with a REALLY INSANE one (Bitty's grandmother) for a bit of a laugh!

Ahh memories

[Guest Tess32]

Is my experience that asking a breeder how many they have is like asking for them to run a mile.

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical.

Yep, can't have it both ways. IF breeders can be choosy about their puppy buyers and make judgements on their suitability, then it has to be in reverse too.

If I don't want to buy from a breeder with over X amount of dogs, that should be my choice as someone about to part with all that money.

[Gayle.]

I wouldn't bother asking the dog show questions unless you're very au fait with the dog show world. A championship title might sound impressive, but it's less impressive when you understand that the dog might never have beaten another dog to get it. And that is quite likely to be the case with a rarer breed. Even some popular breeds are very under-represented at dog shows and there may only ever be one or two shown at a time. Last week I was at a dog show and there were no kelpies and only one ACD, and no one would consider them to be a rare breed.

[Fordogs]

WooHoo, Was that your first email to this breeder? I would have slammed the door in your face.

Had you spoken on the phone prior to the email??

First contact you should have introduced your self first before asking the breeder what she has for breakfast.

You would be a breeders Nightmare, most of those questions could have been sorted out over a period of time once you got to know each other.

[Dame Aussie]

The first question I'd ask is "How much?"

Yikes, I couldn't bring myself to do that. Its a factor but only one of them. I do agree finding out at the end they wand $3000+ a pup changes a lot of plans. It might mean budgeting another year (or more). I think I'd freak out breeders staring with that question more than I already am!

Isn't that one of the first things you need to know when you're buying something though? If I'm looking to buy a car, one of the first things I do is check the going prices for the make and model I'm interested in and if it's out of my budget, I cross that one off the list.

I know breeders don't like to put puppies in the same category as other "purchases" but the fact is that they need to be paid for and the person thinking about buying one needs to know they can afford it or are prepared to pay that amount.

I really don't get the reluctance to advertising prices. It would save breeders having to deal with those "How much?" emails they all seem to hate and it would save potential buyers having to ask the question.

I have to agree here, when we were looking at pups barely any of the websites/ads etc listed price. I always hear breeders complain about people asking about cost but if it's not there then of course they're going to. Excluding people who only say "How much??" of course

To the OP, I basically emailed our breeder with a short run down about us, our life and what we wanted in a dog, I asked if she thought the breed would be suitable for us etc. She replied with most of the details you are asking without me having to ask a lot of them.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Aussie3

[toy*dog]

I wouldn't bother asking the dog show questions unless you're very au fait with the dog show world. A championship title might sound impressive, but it's less impressive when you understand that the dog might never have beaten another dog to get it. And that is quite likely to be the case with a rarer breed. Even some popular breeds are very under-represented at dog shows and there may only ever be one or two shown at a time. Last week I was at a dog show and there were no kelpies and only one ACD, and no one would consider them to be a rare breed.

yep there is an old saying thats been going around for years in the showring. "petrol champions". lol some dogs get titles because the owner drives all over the state to get the points, some points towards the champion title might be won when there is no other dog in the ring. so some people seeing "champion" on a pedigree is all impressed by it but really when you look at it, champions can be not all that great quality, it has no bearing on how good or bad a dog actually is at the end of the day. some dogs do get their champion points in stiff competition some don't but it also has no bearing on the quality of the progeny they might throw either.

[Sandra777]

Are you a member of any Clubs?

How is this relevant? Some people aren't club people, some clubs will accept anyone who pays the membership. Some breeds don't have clubs (but I assume you know the breed you're interested in does or you wouldn't ask ) Some clubs are closed to anyone from outside the "right clique" so NOT belonging is usually a good thing.

Have the parents had any health checks/scoring?

Why is a health check of any interest to you? I think you need to be specific about what breed specific testing is relevant and ask about that. Taking a dog to a vet and having a health check and calling it good is a hallmark of a BYB or uneducated one.

Have the parents been shown?

There was a person on here not too long ago who got taken for a very long and expensive ride when the breeder said yes to just this question. a) how can you prove they're not lying and b) any dog on main register can be shown, that doesn't actually MEAN anything!

Will they have seen other animals, eg cats, chooks etc

How is this relevant? At 8 weeks old I don't want my pups messing about with cats who can blind them in a second with one swipe or chickens who freqeuently carry salmonella.

What documents come with the puppy?

Registration (main / limited)?

Vaccination?

Microchip?

Pedigree?

You are asking the same question 5 times. What documents come with the puppy will answer all the rest of these questions. Registration and pedigree aren't the same thing but the pedigree is on the registration certificate and while some breeders might supply a separate written out pedigree, many won't as this information is on the registration.

Are they currently playing with kongs or chew toys?

How is this relevant? My pups get a variety of rubber, plastic, wooden and soft toys to wreck, boxes to climb on, pipes to run through, buckets to climb in. I certainly won't ever give any dog a kong (friend's dog died after getting her tongue caught in one) and chew toys for puppies is a redundancy - everything is a chew toy to a puppy. Better to ask what sort of things the pups get to play with in general

Edited October 28, 2011 by Sandra777

[OSoSwift]

A puppy doesn't have to be IN with various animals to be socialised or neutralised towards them.

Mine are not in the paddocks but are happy troting around and taking no notice of sheep, cows and horses on the other side of the fence. We also have a cat who chooses or not to hang around the dogs. I also have Cavies and I certainly don't let the dogs run around with them but they tag along when I am feeding them etc.

I really do not understand why people get so het about about people asking from a price. Yeh okay the "how much are they" single liners-fine, but when someone sends you an email with a bit about themselves, what they are after in a dog etc and then asks the price what is wrong with telling them???? Would people prefer 6 emails and three phone calls later to find out the person cannot afford the purchase price or it is higher than what they expected??

I do not want to waste a persons precious time asking questions etc to find out that I cannot have one of their puppies. There is also no point in me getting emotionally invested to have it smashed because I cannot afford the puppy. Not everyone has $3000 sitting around to purchase a puppy.

Edited October 28, 2011 by OSoSwift

[Mason_Gibbs]

I agree Oso!!

[megan_]

WooHoo, Was that your first email to this breeder? I would have slammed the door in your face.

Had you spoken on the phone prior to the email??

First contact you should have introduced your self first before asking the breeder what she has for breakfast.

You would be a breeders Nightmare, most of those questions could have been sorted out over a period of time once you got to know each other.

Wow. Slammed the door in her face? Breeders nightmare?

Really? If I was a breeder my nightmare would be someone breeding one of the pups that they got from me or selling the dog on gumtree once they were bored of it or chaining it in the yard....many things would come ahead of someone who was really enthusiastic and asked too many questions via email.

[BJean]

Is my experience that asking a breeder how many they have is like asking for them to run a mile.

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical.

Once again a value based judgement based on PC not facts.

How many dogs do you deem it is ethical for a breeder to own?

A breeder with more dogs, breeding a few litters per year

generally knows more about the breed, than the breeder with one or two dogs who might breed once a year or every two years.

[megan_]

Is my experience that asking a breeder how many they have is like asking for them to run a mile.

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical.

Once again a value based judgement based on PC not facts.

How many dogs do you deem it is ethical for a breeder to own?

A breeder with more dogs, breeding a few litters per year

generally knows more about the breed, than the breeder with one or two dogs who might breed once a year or every two years.

Lilli - what I find ethical someone else might not. That is my choice. It certainly wouldn't be the only question I asked, and I wouldn't do it via email. But I am free to ask questions to find out about the breeder. We keep on telling people to buy from ethical sources. Should we stop that? Should be just say 'buy from whoever is registered with the cc because, god forbid, we ask a question that may offend".

[BJean]

Is my experience that asking a breeder how many they have is like asking for them to run a mile.

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical.

Yep, can't have it both ways. IF breeders can be choosy about their puppy buyers and make judgements on their suitability, then it has to be in reverse too.

If I don't want to buy from a breeder with over X amount of dogs, that should be my choice as someone about to part with all that money.

Of course it should go in reverse. But this type of question is typical PC question and the person asking generally doesn't really know what they are on about (in this context).

Okay so you ask me as a breeder how many dogs I have, and I tell you 20.

What does that tell you?

All you can apply is a perceived idea about how many dogs an 'ethical' (sic) breeder has.

It doesn't tell you about my dogs, how I breed, what type of breeder I am.

You don't know the circumstance, all you have is an ideal in your head about what good breeders do. But the ideal is a long way from actuality. And so it does not serve as a good reference point.

[BJean]

Is my experience that asking a breeder how many they have is like asking for them to run a mile.

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical.

Once again a value based judgement based on PC not facts.

How many dogs do you deem it is ethical for a breeder to own?

A breeder with more dogs, breeding a few litters per year

generally knows more about the breed, than the breeder with one or two dogs who might breed once a year or every two years.

Lilli - what I find ethical someone else might not. That is my choice. It certainly wouldn't be the only question I asked, and I wouldn't do it via email. But I am free to ask questions to find out about the breeder. We keep on telling people to buy from ethical sources. Should we stop that? Should be just say 'buy from whoever is registered with the cc because, god forbid, we ask a question that may offend".

Of course you can hold your own opinion on what is ethical. Even if it has no bearing on what a good breeder does or doesn't do.

Personally I dont see the point of supporting questions that actually show me the asker doesn't have an idea about the technicalities of what I am doing.

Edited October 28, 2011 by lilli

[megan_]

I'm a devoted dog owner, not a breeder. I'm never going to understand the technicalities of what you're doing. But I would ask the breeder - in a more indirect, conversational, way about their dogs to find out what kind of breeder they were.

[JLPandFriends]

Thanks everyone, I've gone through the questions and chopped a lot out. Assuming I'm chatting with a breeder do you think these questions are ok? I obviously wouldnt be reading them out like a robot but chatting about them. Does anyone ask anything of a potential breeder not here that I should be asking?

I'm paranoid about buying from someone who has litters for the purpose of sale only. I really want to buy from someone who health checks (where necessary) and cares how their puppies are raised. The breeder is welcome to find out from me everything I can offer a puppy too!

Are you a member of any Clubs?

What do you like about the **?

Have the parents had any health checks/scoring?

What is the temperament of the parents?

Have the parents been shown?

Have the parents had a litter together before?

How are the puppies raised? (Outside, inside, combination?)

Will they have seen other animals, eg cats, chooks etc

What age is the puppy released to its new owner?

How much is the puppy? Is a deposit required?

What documents come with the puppy?

Registration (main / limited)?

Vaccination?

Microchip?

Pedigree?

Is there a vet check of the puppy before release?

If kept crated/penned is there a separate area for toileting, ie do they go on grass / paper?

Are they currently playing with kongs or chew toys?

Thanks :D

The following to me would be a better list of questions. Just my opinion.

Are you a member of any Clubs?

Q1) Are you a registered club member and a regular exhibitor of the breed? (this will answer several questions from club registered to breeding quality to whether they show or not)

What do you like about the **? (I don't think this question is necessary. You will probably find that the things the breeder likes about the breed is the same thing you've probably found through your research that most people like about it)

Have the parents had any health checks/scoring?

What is the temperament of the parents?

Q2) What is the health and temperament of the parents like? Is this their first litter?

Have the parents been shown? (This to me suggests that you're after a pick of the litter pup. If that is what you want then you should just be clear with the breeder and say that's what you want. You should also be prepared to pay sometimes double and sometimes more than what you thought you would be paying. From what i understand, it is never guaranteed that you will get a beautiful show quality pup in a litter just because the parents were. So it is better to tell the breeder that you want a show quality pup or you want a pick of the litter rather than ask if the parents are show quality. If they are registered and regular exhibitors then they only breed from quality stock. The first question will answer this for you.)

Have the parents had a litter together before?

How are the puppies raised? (Outside, inside, combination?)

Will they have seen other animals, eg cats, chooks etc

What age is the puppy released to its new owner?

Q3) Will the pups get to socialise with children and perhaps other animals while they are still with their mum?

How much is the puppy? Is a deposit required?

Q4) When would i be able to take the pup home if you decided that we'd make a good match?

What documents come with the puppy?

Registration (main / limited)?

Vaccination?

Microchip?

Pedigree?

I would offer an apology for all the questions and that the following is the last.

5) Do your pups come with the usual health checks and papers, limited or main registration and are pedigree's available for pets?

Then i would say something like...

"Sorry again for all the questions. This is a big commitment and i just want to make sure that i have all the info needed before committing.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and answer a few questions, i hope i haven't gone overboard with them and i look forward to hearing from you soon. =)"

Edited October 28, 2011 by JLPandFriends

[BJean]

I'm a devoted dog owner, not a breeder. I'm never going to understand the technicalities of what you're doing. But I would ask the breeder - in a more indirect, conversational, way about their dogs to find out what kind of breeder they were.

Yes.

Your're not a breeder. Your understanding of what makes a good breeder and the technicalities of what I do is limited - unless you are heavily involved in the dog world in another capacity.

Okay so you ask me how many dogs I own. As a non breeder it means you have a pre-conceived idea about what is an appropriate number of dogs for me to own - eventhough you know nothing about the technicalities of breeding for the breed you are enquiring about.

In my breeds, the breeders who know the most, and who are the best at that they do, own more than a few dogs.

There is no substitute for experience and understanding, other than doing it yourself. The more dogs you observe and interact with, the more you learn about your breed, its morphology and development; the nuances of breed temperament and why they do what they do.

Of course, a breeder that does not seek to learn will understand nothing whether they own 1 or 1000 dogs.

But for a breeder that is dedicated to their breed, a puppy buyer would be a fool to assume that because such a breeder owns x amount of dogs, it has a bearing on whether the breeder is ethical or not.

Never did a breeder make an impact on their breed(s), by owning one or two dogs. To develop an eye and to know your breed - where it came from, where it is and where it is going - a breeder needs overview. And you cannot get this overview unless the dogs (many plurals!) become part of your life.

or haha maybe I look too much to the steppes

Edited October 28, 2011 by lilli

[Guest Tess32]

Is my experience that asking a breeder how many they have is like asking for them to run a mile.

But buyers should ask about the breeders dogs - they matter too. No way I'm going to hand my money over to someone who I don't believe is ethical.

Yep, can't have it both ways. IF breeders can be choosy about their puppy buyers and make judgements on their suitability, then it has to be in reverse too.

If I don't want to buy from a breeder with over X amount of dogs, that should be my choice as someone about to part with all that money.

Of course it should go in reverse. But this type of question is typical PC question and the person asking generally doesn't really know what they are on about (in this context).

Okay so you ask me as a breeder how many dogs I have, and I tell you 20.

What does that tell you?

All you can apply is a perceived idea about how many dogs an 'ethical' (sic) breeder has.

It doesn't tell you about my dogs, how I breed, what type of breeder I am.

You don't know the circumstance, all you have is an ideal in your head about what good breeders do. But the ideal is a long way from actuality. And so it does not serve as a good reference point.

Well if 20 was over what I wanted, then it tells me you aren't the right breeder for me and I'd move on to find someone suitable? If it was a point that mattered to me.

If I wanted a breeder who only bred every few years, my choice...a breeder who breeds three times a year...my choice.

To reverse it again, some breeders won't sell to someone who works full time *regardless* of the ins/outs and technicalities of their personal life. They have a right to not sell to that person, and the prospective buyer has a right to filter you out based on whatever they want to. It doesn't matter at all what the right number is, if there is a right number and so on.

It's not some magical past time that no one on the outside can understand. If an Owner wants to buy a puppy whose parents are predominately indoor dogs, that is their choice, and they have the right to know if this is the case, or if the breeder keeps 20 in kennels.

[Roova]

Okay so you ask me as a breeder how many dogs I have, and I tell you 20. What does that tell you?

How about if the person asking is looking at the answer in context with the other questions asked?

Potentially 20 dogs, not a member of any clubs and don't show could be enough of a reason to decide against buying from that person.

[perrin]

But are you asking if they have 20 breeding dogs or just how many dogs in general.

20 dogs may not be a lot of dogs if they are made up of mixed breeds, working breeds, retired dogs. 20 dogs is just a number.

People with working dogs (i have found) tend to have quite a few dogs at one time. And they don't always consist of working dogs. There tends to be one or two family dogs as well as the old retired farm dogs and the young dogs who are learning the ropes.