Alyosha Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Ummm... as for reporting actions undertaken by inspectors from the RSPCA... would they not fall under ICAC? They don't unfortunately. All watchdog provisions we have are set up to monitor the public sector. And RSPCA is a private organisation. They seriously lack accountability, and adding to their powers without any increase in that is potentially a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) I don't think you see anywhere near as many purebred dogs in pounds compared to others (crosses or not so well bred dogs) Staffy, the research certainly supports your observation. Also TD's point about the higher visibility of the purebreds helping them, when they do get into strife. I had an example of that. What looks like a p/b tibbie found in Brisbane by kind people who took him to vet, no microchip, no collar ID. They did all the right things of notifying council, local vets, posters, even paying for a newspaper ad. But no responses. When vet said he looked like nice p/b Tibbie, finders googled a breed club. Found the one in Victoria who are wonderful when a tib turns up in need. They put finders on to me in Brisbane, as a Tibbie pet owner with local knowledge. Finders were so worried about him....said he has lovely 'manners' and is so nicely social. They dreaded he'd get lost in a harsh 'system' if owners don't claim. Couple of phone calls & support thro' RSPCA Q'ld Lost & Found officer...and all is now well for this lad. Look at how his breed background & visibility reduced his chances of becoming a nasty statistic. Edited September 26, 2012 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Whenever our rescue has pure breed dogs/pups for adoption, we get a heck of a lot of people applying for them. A good number of these people applying will come armed with all of the questions they should be asking a registered breeder - health checks, hip scores, etc... As we are usually not privy to that sort of information, and can't 100% guarantee that no issues will ever arise with the dog they are applying for, we tend to advise those people to seek out a registered (and ethical) breeder that CAN give them all the assurances they are asking for. Funnily enough - most potential adopters will say to us that a registered breeder charges more for their dogs than those in rescue... so we tell them the initial outlay is worth it if the dog will be sound mentally and physically because it was bred from the best stock and under the best conditions. Most seem to get the idea then... Not all people in rescue are completely anti registered breeders... *grin* Shoe on the other foot though... there aren't a lot of registered breeders who think very highly of those of us in rescue either. Many of us are actually quite sane and ethical, and are genuinely in the "game" because we feel we can provide a service that can help homeless adoptable pets find new homes - nothing more, nothing less. We are just as ashamed and mortified by the actions of the activists, bleeding hearts, and radicals as the purebred community is... trust me on that one, OK? Ummm... as for reporting actions undertaken by inspectors from the RSPCA... would they not fall under ICAC? T. the long and the short aNswer to that. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I know there are extremists but generally I think common sense prevails and the average person does not think that if a purebred breeder has a litter that means that pound dogs won't get a home. Unfortunately a lot of average people seem to think "Why BUY a brand new dog when you can get one from rescue?! The shelters are overflowing why do you contribute to the number of dogs in the world!?!?" etc etc etc. Pretty much saying anyone who buys a dog whether it be from a pet shop or from a breeder is evil and deserved to be shamed because they didn't adopt one already in need. I've heard it so many times. Stupid argument, but there are stupid people unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) Just watched the repeat. nobody mentioned the RSPCA CEO was on it. are there printouts of what was said? He said he doesnt like to see animals put down? Does that mean, Marion Alcorn's dogged horses weren't "animals?" or did I mishear? Edited September 26, 2012 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I know there are extremists but generally I think common sense prevails and the average person does not think that if a purebred breeder has a litter that means that pound dogs won't get a home. Unfortunately a lot of average people seem to think "Why BUY a brand new dog when you can get one from rescue?! The shelters are overflowing why do you contribute to the number of dogs in the world!?!?" etc etc etc. Pretty much saying anyone who buys a dog whether it be from a pet shop or from a breeder is evil and deserved to be shamed because they didn't adopt one already in need. I've heard it so many times. Stupid argument, but there are stupid people unfortunately. Now see I had never heard that until I came to DOL - that some think you shouldn't buy from a breeder or pet shop when there are dogs to be rescued from pounds.. Each to their own - breeder or rescue (or both) in my opinion. The main one I hear is why are rescue dog so expensive when they are going to die anyway - going through the whole; cost to get them out, desex, worm, vet treatment if needed, food etc until they are adopted still doesn't seem to wash with some people - some still think they should be $50 because they were going to die anyway.. One of the biggest things that I don't get in the whole pet industry is why on earth would anyone want to pay $1000+ for a cross bred dog, (talking the unmentionables here), when you can buy a perfectly good pure bred dog from a breeder who health test etc etc for often less money.. Or get a rescue for about $300 with all their work done.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Outside of the persistent view of don't buy, adopt, there exists the persistent view that pedigree dogs are only for show and are more expensive than pet shop dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Was it Banksia Park Puppies, that had the 300 breeding bitches? I just googled "Banksia Puppy Farm" and that's what came up All I could remember from last night was the "Banksia" Their website makes me cry. http://www.banksiaparkpuppies.com/new/life-at-banksia-park/daily-routine The day starts at Banksia Park at 6.00am with an overall inspection of the newborn nursery to see if there have been any new arrivals during the night. Any new litters are tended to first; this involves bathing the new mum, replacing the bedding and ensuring all of the new puppies are cleaned up and drinking. So, no one is there to supervise whelping? What if mum or pups are in distress, they are obviously just left alone to die? By 7.00am all mums are outside for their exercise, toilet and the day’s first feed of Pedigree Pal Dry Food Awesome quality food for breastfeeding mums! (sorry, there might be a doggy technical term for breastfeeding in dogs, I'm not a breeder so I don't know lol) However, non-pregnant girls get Depending on the day, they may be having anything from fresh chicken, red meat and beef bones to Pedigree Pal Dry Food Why only dodgy dry food for mums, no fresh meat? Oh, sorry I read further, they get meat for their afternoon meal. Hmmm, yet the end of the page says: The days don’t end at 5:30pm for the mums due to give birth, and thus they don’t end for the managers at Banksia Park Puppies. The managers spend the nights from 5:30pm through to the days start at 6am ensuring that any mums are taken care of while birthing, and completing any during/after birth care and cleaning which may be required through the night. which completely contradicts their opening statement. This place makes me cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidgy Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Was it Banksia Park Puppies, that had the 300 breeding bitches? I just googled "Banksia Puppy Farm" and that's what came up All I could remember from last night was the "Banksia" Their website makes me cry. http://www.banksiaparkpuppies.com/new/life-at-banksia-park/daily-routine The day starts at Banksia Park at 6.00am with an overall inspection of the newborn nursery to see if there have been any new arrivals during the night. Any new litters are tended to first; this involves bathing the new mum, replacing the bedding and ensuring all of the new puppies are cleaned up and drinking. So, no one is there to supervise whelping? What if mum or pups are in distress, they are obviously just left alone to die? By 7.00am all mums are outside for their exercise, toilet and the day’s first feed of Pedigree Pal Dry Food Awesome quality food for breastfeeding mums! (sorry, there might be a doggy technical term for breastfeeding in dogs, I'm not a breeder so I don't know lol) However, non-pregnant girls get Depending on the day, they may be having anything from fresh chicken, red meat and beef bones to Pedigree Pal Dry Food Why only dodgy dry food for mums, no fresh meat? Oh, sorry I read further, they get meat for their afternoon meal. Hmmm, yet the end of the page says: The days don’t end at 5:30pm for the mums due to give birth, and thus they don’t end for the managers at Banksia Park Puppies. The managers spend the nights from 5:30pm through to the days start at 6am ensuring that any mums are taken care of while birthing, and completing any during/after birth care and cleaning which may be required through the night. which completely contradicts their opening statement. This place makes me cry. this place makes me vomit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Was it Banksia Park Puppies, that had the 300 breeding bitches? I just googled "Banksia Puppy Farm" and that's what came up All I could remember from last night was the "Banksia" Their website makes me cry. http://www.banksiaparkpuppies.com/new/life-at-banksia-park/daily-routine The day starts at Banksia Park at 6.00am with an overall inspection of the newborn nursery to see if there have been any new arrivals during the night. Any new litters are tended to first; this involves bathing the new mum, replacing the bedding and ensuring all of the new puppies are cleaned up and drinking. So, no one is there to supervise whelping? What if mum or pups are in distress, they are obviously just left alone to die? By 7.00am all mums are outside for their exercise, toilet and the day’s first feed of Pedigree Pal Dry Food Awesome quality food for breastfeeding mums! (sorry, there might be a doggy technical term for breastfeeding in dogs, I'm not a breeder so I don't know lol) However, non-pregnant girls get Depending on the day, they may be having anything from fresh chicken, red meat and beef bones to Pedigree Pal Dry Food Why only dodgy dry food for mums, no fresh meat? Oh, sorry I read further, they get meat for their afternoon meal. Hmmm, yet the end of the page says: The days don’t end at 5:30pm for the mums due to give birth, and thus they don’t end for the managers at Banksia Park Puppies. The managers spend the nights from 5:30pm through to the days start at 6am ensuring that any mums are taken care of while birthing, and completing any during/after birth care and cleaning which may be required through the night. which completely contradicts their opening statement. This place makes me cry. this place makes me vomit!! Ditto.. Especially the bit about only breeding their 'girls' twice in any 18 month period as per the code of conduct.. And only up until they are about 6 years old, then they are given away to good homes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Was it Banksia Park Puppies, that had the 300 breeding bitches? I just googled "Banksia Puppy Farm" and that's what came up All I could remember from last night was the "Banksia" Their website makes me cry. http://www.banksiaparkpuppies.com/new/life-at-banksia-park/daily-routine The day starts at Banksia Park at 6.00am with an overall inspection of the newborn nursery to see if there have been any new arrivals during the night. Any new litters are tended to first; this involves bathing the new mum, replacing the bedding and ensuring all of the new puppies are cleaned up and drinking. So, no one is there to supervise whelping? What if mum or pups are in distress, they are obviously just left alone to die? By 7.00am all mums are outside for their exercise, toilet and the day’s first feed of Pedigree Pal Dry Food Awesome quality food for breastfeeding mums! (sorry, there might be a doggy technical term for breastfeeding in dogs, I'm not a breeder so I don't know lol) However, non-pregnant girls get Depending on the day, they may be having anything from fresh chicken, red meat and beef bones to Pedigree Pal Dry Food Why only dodgy dry food for mums, no fresh meat? Oh, sorry I read further, they get meat for their afternoon meal. Hmmm, yet the end of the page says: The days don’t end at 5:30pm for the mums due to give birth, and thus they don’t end for the managers at Banksia Park Puppies. The managers spend the nights from 5:30pm through to the days start at 6am ensuring that any mums are taken care of while birthing, and completing any during/after birth care and cleaning which may be required through the night. which completely contradicts their opening statement. This place makes me cry. this place makes me vomit!! Ditto.. Especially the bit about only breeding their 'girls' twice in any 18 month period as per the code of conduct.. And only up until they are about 6 years old, then they are given away to good homes... It gets better ... any dog that sheds they recommend not be an inside dog! So your Beagalie, Pugle & Pugalier are recommended to be outside dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) Outside of the persistent view of don't buy, adopt, there exists the persistent view that pedigree dogs are only for show and are more expensive than pet shop dogs. Agree, I'm forever meeting people who are surprised that our pet purebred dogs are ex-showdogs. They believe that only 'show' people can buy dogs from 'show' people. Their other surprise is how people- friendly and affectionate the two ex-showdogs are. They think that 'show' dogs must be 'snooty' & not people-friendly. Just for showing in the ring. I point out that our ex-showdogs came from the registered breeder, already with these lovely personalities. And I tell them that research showed registered breeders of purebreds were more likely to socialise their dogs well. On the point of expensiveness, any of this breed spotted in petstores, have been far, far more expensive than puppies from the best registered breeders. I just saw this quote from the Banksia info: The day starts at Banksia Park at 6.00am with an overall inspection of the newborn nursery to see if there have been any new arrivals during the night. The registered breeder my purebreds come from, has the mother dog sleeping beside her own bed, so she will be alerted & ready with support, as soon as labour starts. She'd find it unthinkable that a mother dog would be left in a shed alone to give birth. Did I say I have beautifully socialised dogs from that breeder? I wonder why that would be so! Edited September 26, 2012 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 When ever I think about puppy farms and the like - Leo's Story comes to mind every time.. Leo's Story It might not be the oodles so much that end up in pounds but I bet there are lots of breeding stock that end up there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Outside of the persistent view of don't buy, adopt, there exists the persistent view that pedigree dogs are only for show and are more expensive than pet shop dogs. Agree, I'm forever meeting people who are surprised that our pet purebred dogs are ex-showdogs. They believe that only 'show' people can buy dogs from 'show' people. Their other surprise is how people- friendly and affectionate the two ex-showdogs are. They think that 'show' dogs must be 'snooty' & not people-friendly. Just for showing in the ring. I point out that our ex-showdogs came from the registered breeder, already with these lovely personalities. And I tell them that research showed registered breeders of purebreds were more likely to socialise their dogs well. On the point of expensiveness, any of this breed spotted in petstores, have been far, far more expensive than puppies from the best registered breeders. I just saw this quote from the Banksia info: The day starts at Banksia Park at 6.00am with an overall inspection of the newborn nursery to see if there have been any new arrivals during the night. The registered breeder my purebreds come from, has the mother dog sleeping beside her own bed, so she will be alerted & ready with support, as soon as labour starts. She'd find it unthinkable that a mother dog would be left in a shed alone to give birth. Did I say I have beautifully socialised dogs from that breeder? I wonder why that would be so! Also from that website are the statistics that their 5 full time and 5 casual staff care for 300 brood bitches, 30 stud dogs and up to 400 puppies at a time. The staff wouldn't work 7 days a week so the most they are likely to have on hand on any given day is 7-8 people to care for 730 dogs, 400 of whom are puppies that need lots of time and attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) Interestingly I had a chat with a couple of ladies about the program this morning (not that I saw it). They were understandably saddened by the dogs being euth'd and ranted about the puppy farmer but had no comprehension that they were part of the problem - one had an oodle from a pet shop ("felt sorry for it") and the other wants a lab x GR. I patiently explained the issues, how to find a suitable dog etc but it "sounds so difficult and I can't afford it". I really did try to give them answers but the ignorance and unwillingness to listen was astounding and sad. Changing attitudes is bloody hard. I was on the train so had limited time - they were willing to talk happy dog stories but not about the tough decisions. Edited September 26, 2012 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Changing attitudes is difficult- and that applies to the general dog owning public AND people working in pounds, and shelters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Changing attitudes is difficult- and that applies to the general dog owning public AND people working in pounds, and shelters. You've been reading my PhD! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I just saw this quote from the Banksia info: The day starts at Banksia Park at 6.00am with an overall inspection of the newborn nursery to see if there have been any new arrivals during the night. That survived I suppose. The bitches that died in whelp and the still born pups are just 'wastage" to this mob. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I'd love to read TSD. Unfortunately that comment comes from my experiences of beating my head against brick walls for a number of years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidgy Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Well with all the glitzy glamour websites and facebook pages coming from DD breeders etc No wonder people buy on impulse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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