huski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Kalya1 - I'll definitely get in contact with Steve and see what he says :) Hey ES, just shoot me an email on [email protected] and I'll get Steve to have a look at it ASAP. If you have any video of her that would be great to see too. It could be that she's 'just' a super high drive dog or it could even be something medical or a number of other things. Without seeing her I'm not sure it's the same thing but the way you described her shaking reminded me a bit of my Mal, she shakes with adrenalin and her teeth chatter when she's really pumped and ready to go. She has a great off switch as she's been taught one from day one, but I can only imagine what she'd be like in a different home without appropriate management. Management is an important part of owning any dog, but especially with high drive dogs, as their desire to seek reward and drive satisfaction is so much stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Thanks Huski! I'll email you now! I don't have any video of her, I'll try to get some of her though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyBlue Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 It sounds like you need a good management plan in place. There have already been a lot of good trainers/behaviourists recommended that will be able to help you with that. I personally try to get my dogs at least one physical outlet, one mental outlet and some entertainment each day. I have found that if I don't provide enough (entertainment) things for my dog to destroy then he will find them himself - which sucks if I wanted to keep that particular plant. I tend to buy the less destructible toys for value for moneys sake but find that typically food dispensing ones hold their attention longer. There are heaps of food dispensing toys other than kongs on the market now. I have several and tend to put a small amount of kibble in each. I also scatter kibble like chook feed over the lawn for the dogs to forage or hide it around the garden and teach the dogs to find it. I have also started free shaping my boy for his kibble. It gets him thinking which tires him out more than anything else. (He went for a 30min swim this morning after which the guy assured me he will be out like a light for the rest of the day - my other dog is but 'the feral' has since destroyed a blanket and a pot plant and is still charging up and down the hallway 4hrs later :p). Frozen marrow bones also give me 1.5 to 2hrs of peace. If I were you I would also look into DAP collars and relaxation music and perhaps, if you haven't already, crate training for your own sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoilt lab lives here Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I dont agree Stabler is the equivalent to Steve at all. Steve is worth the visit. Trust me we have used both trainers. Good luck with your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noisymina Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Kitt - we have tried food toys - the kong she is now afraid of as she got it stuck on her face, since then she wont touch toys at all. Kalya1 - I'll definitely get in contact with Steve and see what he says :) Clearly she CAN learn! Someone mentioned T-Touch. I'd second that ....although other measures may be needed as well. Just the basic relaxation massage is all you need. Don't give up if it does not seem to work straight away. Start with a few seconds and gradually increase. The dog will learn to enjoy it - and you have a start to teaching her to chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezy Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 have you tried crate training , my kelpie girl is all over the place, hearding flies when there is nothing to do, I firmly belive that crate training her helped her learn to turn off, she is way better now and can lay down and relax , she is never gunna be a couch potato, but she has leanrt to chill a little , the proper crate training is about games and focus , not just gettting in there and shutting the door . I have a disk or book here i think , maybe I can send it up for you to look at and you can send it back when your done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 have you tired tellington touch?? they have a wrap as well. I used one of my hyper/agressive girls for a demo and was totally gob smacked at the change in her... H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyliedelonge Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 maybe something as simple as rescue remedy of a dap infuser? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeGee Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Jayne.....the man they call Jayne....! Soz couldn't help it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Chezy - she is crate trained, had to train her for working dog school etc. Have tried Rescue Remedy (we have it on hand due to a storm phobic dog) and DAP - they were my first port of call before everything else. I've contacted K9pro, so will go from there for now. Thanks for the suggestions guys :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogsAndTheMob Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 My first BC was like that. Even at 16 yo he was hyper! He was great to train for obedience competition because he never became bored or tired... He got his UD without much trouble. I found these strategies effective... I did a lot of UD level training even before he could heel. Those exercises provide good mental stimulation and I think you could adapt to your dog's motivators and abilities.... Seek back for food rather than an article, sendaway to food, directed send to food etc. I played a lot of hide and seek games with tennis balls.... Perhaps you could confine your dog while you hide her meals then send her to find them.I placed him on long stays while I worked around the house, as I found that stopped him from "psyching" himself up.He was very responsive to touch and would almost freeze if I ran my hand slowly over his head and down his back to the base of his tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyliedelonge Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 ok well im out of ideas for now. but if you get a treadmill, id look at getting some doggy boots for her. i know its burnt my feet to walk on a treadmill barefoot. i also think you should rename her calamity jayne. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 ok well im out of ideas for now. but if you get a treadmill, id look at getting some doggy boots for her. i know its burnt my feet to walk on a treadmill barefoot. i also think you should rename her calamity jayne. :p The thought had crossed our minds lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I suggest speaking with the folks at McDowell Herbal . They can probably make up a mixture for her ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I do have a weighted backpack for my cattle x from Steve, but think you need more than that. Mine is to work him harder as he doesn't self exercise on walks, just follows me, then comes home and causes trouble :laugh: I can recommend steve too, has to be worth a try. There is a girl i see most evenings, she got what she thought was a mutt from the RSPCA last year, its a Malanois, with massive drive! she first started running with it, now rideas a bike really fast, makes her swim for ages across the lake, goes out for hours with her, but the problem is the more she does the fitter she gets. Its the brain that needs wearing out sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 If the dog is not focusing properly on a job then she will never be 'worn out'. She's not thinking she's just acting like a very fit lunatic. Get yourself a nice high level E collar like the Dogtra ones with a remote, then have her on a leash and flat collar below it. This dog has to be 'forced' for lack of a better word to stick to a job. Give her a task, when she tries to go out of that task she needs a slight correction in order to bring her back into thinking mode, think like steering a car. Either way too far you turn the steering wheel to keep it straight, she needs the same thing. I've seen dogs similar, not as bad, but you literally have to step by step make them sit down and do the work properly. As for the bark collar, which static one did you buy? Mine have never beeped before stimulation. A trainer to look into is Bart Bellon, if you can see a few youtube clips how he uses an ecollar on his dogs. It's at a 'steering' stim level like I said before, to put the dog on the right track. This dog has drive through the roof but a lot of self control. Not expecting you to do this with your dog but he's on an ecollar and the whip is there to help guide the dog into the correct place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I haven't read all through the thread but have you had a thyroid test done by Dr Jean Dodds? I would be looking at a clinical explanation for the hyperactivity - the endocrine system being out of balance. Ironically, hyperactivity, poor concentration & anxiety can be indicators for hypothyroidism in its early stages. I thought I had one of Dr Jean Dodd's articles explaining this bookmarked, but cannot find it at the moment. Erny is the fountain of knowledge on this stuff :laugh: maybe shoot her a PM?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebie Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Firstly as you don't know early beginnings of this dog is hard to say what has caused her current problems, but from the description it is very possible that this dog may have had parvo at an early age and managed to recover and this has left her with obviously neurological damage hence the shaking (quivering) when kept under control, dogs do this but when it is extreme it sets off alarm bells for other causes, then there is the incessent barking, this is probably a learned behaviour, but combined with the poor focus or short term attention span is more likely due to some neuro damage. This dog is also exhibiting antisocial behaviour in a pack structure, again remnants of early socialisation problems or lack of it. She needs lots of input! One on one initially, away from other dogs and excessive stimulation, if she is food focussed this is brilliant as this one source can be used to reinforce the desired behaviour. Teaching lots of tricks, shake hands, spin left spin right, roll over, touch etc etc. These are just as importnant as heeling, sit, drop etc. I would be swimming this dog (they can't bark when swimming), doing massage, and initally you need to get a specific drug prescribed from the vet which will calm her to a point where input can be received, this medication is used for storm phobic dogs and is similar to prozac for humans. From what you have described regarding her circling in the enclosure and the other dog interaction it really sounds like she is one very frustrated and misunderstood dog, with tendency to fear aggression, what is she like when out and about away from your normal environment, walking alone, do you have problems, does she seem interested in her surrounds or reluctant to walk? Definately sounds like this dog needs to be placed in a single dog home, you could still have contact but at least this way it would not need to be put down, maybe worth a trial to see if it makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Trifecta and Erny I agree - the place to start is good diagnostics for this dog IMO. She reminds me of a number of children I used to see as a Speechie - absolutely no control over their behaviour, extremely hyper and no abilty to control it due to brain damage. Heart breaking for their families. You could spend a lot of money and time and effort on this dog without a proper diagnosis - so suggest a neuro vet specialist. Good luck ES. You are one of the most sensible experienced DOLers and if you are having trouble with this dog and at your wits end then I suspect the problem is medical. Will look forward to hearing how you get on. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Thanks guys :) Westiemum - you made me smile :) Thank you. One on one, she's completely the same, scatter brained etc. As for the static collars we have had so many different ones, this current one is a cheap one as she would still bark like a maniac with the static collars with no warning beep to them. I currently work for two different vet clinics, over the last 3 years, 8 vets have collaborated on her, and have ruled out medical issues currently being an issue (I mean her having something right now) whether she has had something previously that has caused this, who knows. We've had the USA T4 (I think thats Jean Dodds, but I can't remember), she has had in house, external lab bloods, full panels etc done. Basically whatever blood test they could throw at her, they did) I think she would be better in a one dog household, however, today she was away from the other dogs completely, and my neighbour came and asked me this arvo as I came home what was wrong as she was chucking a wobbly most of the day. He isn't often home, but has heard her from time to time, he said today she seemed to be really hammering into it. She had no contact with the other dogs, and when I got home, she looked miserable. As soon as I let her out, she cried, raced around like a maniac, played with mums dog Jimmy and went zooming around the paddocks. As for training her with the Dogtra one, we had used a collar with the remote from QLD (I can't remember what brand it was but it was very exxy) and she totally ignored the softer correcting with it and would go nuts as soon as you put it up the next level. Its fairly late here now, so I'll re-read the thread again tomorrow, as I think I've missed a few of the last posts as I'm replying now. I think there is some great suggestions here, and I am definitely taking them on board :) Thanks guys :) ETA - Zeebie - she isn't exactly food motivated, the best way to describe it is, over all the different things we've tried, she works best on food, but if she decides she doesn't want to do/listen, no amount of food in the world will convince her. Once this heatwave is over, I'll try to get some video of her, everyone is shocked watching her at how bad she is. I was reminded today of her nickname : the energiser bunny on crack. Edited January 11, 2013 by Everythings Shiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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