blakkjackal Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Such a selfish and sick thing to do. IMO animals should not be allowed to have wheelchairs. Once they need something like that it's time to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 How on earth did that Dobe girl carry a pregnancy?!? That breaks my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Yes I must admit that the idea of a registered breeder allowing a dog to be bred from when it is in that physical state is abhorrent. I expect so much more from a registered breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Yes I must admit that the idea of a registered breeder allowing a dog to be bred from when it is in that physical state is abhorrent. I expect so much more from a registered breeder. I don't think there'd be that may BYB's that would breed a dog with no hind legs either... it doesn't matter that the bitch is genetically sound and lost her legs due to a physical accident - but to intentionally breed from her? Not a good look for breeders... and we all know that stories like that tar ALL registered breeders with the same brush... grrr! Did they seriously not think what the outcome would be when they posted those pics online? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Yea I was pretty surprised they would not only breed the bitch but also share this photo in their puppy ad... Regardless of how great the bitch is, I would not subject any of my dogs to lugging around a baby belly and caring for a litter with this disability. I would probably PTS to be honest, regardless of wheelchairs and other things... With a very active breed especially, I would seriously doubt the quality of life from this point on... I also would have PTS the puppy in the OP video.. But the "save anything that breathes" mentality is pretty far spread and people are prone to copping a lot of flack for even considering PTS if the dog is not practically about to die on its own ETA: Not to mention the cannon fodder this kind of thing gives to breeder hate pages like the one in this article.. Seriously.. Could they possibly have included more links and references to that fb poage? Some pretty vile and ignorant things are being slung around on that page... And the "don't breed or buy while shelter dogs die" slogan makes me heave Edited December 6, 2013 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfthewords Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Demented. I can't believe anyone in their right mind would allow a dog to live like this - sure, for a few years the dog will "enjoy" its life, but in its later years, it's bound to suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polgara's Shadow Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 If the pup is likely to have a few good years..then why not let it have them? Sure looks like its loving life to me. I'm not one for unnecessary suffering at all - I would expect the carer to make a judgement call about when to euth based on quality of life. But I don't get why you wouldn't let the little one enjoy the time it has ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) If the pup is likely to have a few good years..then why not let it have them? Sure looks like its loving life to me. I'm not one for unnecessary suffering at all - I would expect the carer to make a judgement call about when to euth based on quality of life. But I don't get why you wouldn't let the little one enjoy the time it has ? ... because the pup had to have both legs amputated at a young age owing to the severity of it's deformities. Convalescing post surgery would have been very painful and restrictive. My opinion would be that that is unnecessary suffering/ cruelty. Edited December 6, 2013 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polgara's Shadow Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 If the pup is likely to have a few good years..then why not let it have them? Sure looks like its loving life to me. I'm not one for unnecessary suffering at all - I would expect the carer to make a judgement call about when to euth based on quality of life. But I don't get why you wouldn't let the little one enjoy the time it has ? ... because the pup had to have both legs amputated at a young age owing to the severity of it's deformities. Convalescing post surgery would have been very painful and restrictive. My opinion would be that that is unnecessary suffering/ cruelty. I think you are speculating about degree of suffering and convalescence in this case. Nobody here knows the circumstances to which this pup was born. I don't understand the prevailing thought in this thread of euth at birth - regardless of quality of life. Surely a good carer can determine whether a reasonable quality of life is possible for a time and worth the effort? They seem to me to be giving the pup everything it needs to thrive given its limitations - daily hydrotherapy, socialisation time with other dogs, exercise, good food and love. Why is everybody so black and white about this pup? As long as they are thinking about life quality versus pain and suffering and making decisions accordingly. I only have the info from this thread, but I don't have any problems with giving a pup a fighting chance for as long as it is compassionate to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 From what I understand it is a rescue covering the costs for this pup (if that is incorrect, please clarify), so in my opinion it is unethical to spend a fortune on this one pup, which will probably need aftercare for the rest of its life, if an adopter can even be found, instead of using those funds to help the x number of animals who are perfectly fine and just need a chance for some training and some time to find an appropriate home, that those funds could have helped. If the breeder decided to foot the bill I guess that would be their decision. I still agree that the issues the dog has and the surgery and recovery time probably would be more than I would put a baby puppy through, especially if it is obvious from the beginning that it has major disabilities. I guess at least all this publicity might be able to reach somebody willing to offer this dog a home at least, though another in the same situation but minus publicity might forever be stuck at the rescue, since I cannot imagine there are too many people out there looking to adopt a severely disable dog) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 dogs are not designed to be bi pedal . That poor little creature "Faith" started this new ...Ohhh how cute, ..OH. we CAN save this puppy ./. surgery and care is available ..it will be different ... let's do it ... idea. A fighting chance ? A chance of what ? getting its legs back? No . What this appears to be is more in the lines of an experiment , sorry . The pup has no chance of recovery .. or living a long and healthy life ... I am all for dogs who have spinal injuries , but who are young & fit , and are established household members , being fitted with wheels .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polgara's Shadow Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 A fighting chance to enjoy life Pers! ... if even for a little while. Not living is so permanent, and life so fleeting. I'm not a rescuer - maybe I lack the jaded perspective of the rest of you? I admit to being saddened to find the decision whether to nurture a life or terminate at birth is so black and white for you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 If the pup is likely to have a few good years..then why not let it have them? Sure looks like its loving life to me. I'm not one for unnecessary suffering at all - I would expect the carer to make a judgement call about when to euth based on quality of life. But I don't get why you wouldn't let the little one enjoy the time it has ? ... because the pup had to have both legs amputated at a young age owing to the severity of it's deformities. Convalescing post surgery would have been very painful and restrictive. My opinion would be that that is unnecessary suffering/ cruelty. I think you are speculating about degree of suffering and convalescence in this case. Nobody here knows the circumstances to which this pup was born. I don't understand the prevailing thought in this thread of euth at birth - regardless of quality of life. Surely a good carer can determine whether a reasonable quality of life is possible for a time and worth the effort? They seem to me to be giving the pup everything it needs to thrive given its limitations - daily hydrotherapy, socialisation time with other dogs, exercise, good food and love. Why is everybody so black and white about this pup? As long as they are thinking about life quality versus pain and suffering and making decisions accordingly. I only have the info from this thread, but I don't have any problems with giving a pup a fighting chance for as long as it is compassionate to do so. How is stating that convalescing from double rear leg amputation being painful and restrictive, speculation? Any amputation requires a lot of pain medication and there must be restriction to assist with healing. I believe this is fact, not speculation. What has the birth circumstances got to do with it? The clip explained the pup was so deformed at birth that it needed it's rear limbs amputated. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. You not agreeing with my opinion is no different than me not agreeing with yours. My thoughts are that everyone has a different idea of what is ethical and what is quality of life. No right or wrong. There is nothing new with this concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 From what I understand it is a rescue covering the costs for this pup (if that is incorrect, please clarify), so in my opinion it is unethical to spend a fortune on this one pup, which will probably need aftercare for the rest of its life, if an adopter can even be found, instead of using those funds to help the x number of animals who are perfectly fine and just need a chance for some training and some time to find an appropriate home, that those funds could have helped. If the breeder decided to foot the bill I guess that would be their decision. I still agree that the issues the dog has and the surgery and recovery time probably would be more than I would put a baby puppy through, especially if it is obvious from the beginning that it has major disabilities. I guess at least all this publicity might be able to reach somebody willing to offer this dog a home at least, though another in the same situation but minus publicity might forever be stuck at the rescue, since I cannot imagine there are too many people out there looking to adopt a severely disable dog) The RSPCA does this all the time. Saves an animal in life-threatening condition, gives it extensive treatment and uses the story to fund raise. Its quite common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Not living is so permanent, and life so fleeting. I'm not a rescuer - maybe I lack the jaded perspective of the rest of you? I'm no rescuer .. I'd be a bad rescuer I have been involved in euthing many puppies with problems ..and they don't know what they are about to give up ... it is much less stressful/painful than surgery /recuperation . there are more than enough puppies/dogs who DO have a chance at rehabilitation and living long and love filled lives as 'just' a dog - not an exhibit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polgara's Shadow Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Not living is so permanent, and life so fleeting. I'm not a rescuer - maybe I lack the jaded perspective of the rest of you? I'm no rescuer .. I'd be a bad rescuer I have been involved in euthing many puppies with problems ..and they don't know what they are about to give up ... it is much less stressful/painful than surgery /recuperation . there are more than enough puppies/dogs who DO have a chance at rehabilitation and living long and love filled lives as 'just' a dog - not an exhibit. I'd be a bad rescuer too - I'd take them all home to live with me to be honest, and it would break my heart every single time. I actually agree with you Pers 100% on your last post - I too believe quality of life is paramount. I'm no fan of prolonging life for the sake of it but my concern is that many posters in this thread were making a judgement that IN THIS CASE the pup should have been euthed - full stop no questions asked. If it were me making the decision I'd like to think I'd make it in the best interests of the animal and with compassion in mind. I don't feel I have enough information about the animal, its carers, or its prospects for life enjoyment to presume that death is the best outcome for this animal IN THIS CASE. Maybe you all have information beyond this thread that sheds more light in the situation? As Dyzney said - we are all entitled to our opinions. My opinion is that we shouldn't be so quick to judge about matters of life and death when we don't have all the facts at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakkjackal Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Dogs don't have the same sense of living that we do. We're not taking anything away from them by euthanising, they either exist or they don't and that's the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 In my litter I had a puppy born with a large amount of its hard palate missing, it had died some time before. Had the puppy been born alive I would have euthed it. Yes I could have tube fed, yes I could ahve done lots of stuff, but why would I???? to have a puppy suffer through lots of reconstructive surgery, for what gain? It may not have been repairable???? When a puppy is born with such a severe deformity that it needs both hind legs removed, yes I would euth at birth. You have no way of knowing if that pup will have any quality of life and it has to go through bilateral amputations. They are no walk in the park for a dog with three remaining legs I can tell you from experience. Dogs like this are kept alive and paraded around for the person who has "saved them" to preen their ego and get them attention. It is not about the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 My Pickles still walks pretty much like she did when she came to our rescue... She is 3 years old now, and lives in my 4 dog household (she is the smallest dog). She runs a lot better than she walks by the way... As I noted in a previous post, we could have used her for all sorts of fundraising if we were inclined that way - she always gets plenty of attention when out and about. But that's not what rescuing her was about for us. Pickles is a "normal" dog in all other respects - she just walks funny because she has a scar in her brain from an unknown cause that happend some time before she came to us. We could speculate all sorts of reasons for her disability, but I really can't see the point myself - she's just one of my dogs to me. She gets no special treatment except occasional help to get up onto the couch when she's in a lazy mood and can't be arsed making the 3 attempts it usually takes to get up herself. A lot of people would have euthed Pickles as a pup... but that probably would have been hasty thinking, now that I know that her disability isn't one for her - it's just normal, and she certainly doesn't think she's any different to my other 3 larger able-bodied dogs... and she's an awesome foster puppy raising helper to boot! T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I saw a video of a border collie/huntaway in NZ with only two legs. It was a feel good segment at the end of the news. He lost them through accidents on the farm. He had one front and the opposite rear remaining. He could still go up into the hills and round up sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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