jupiterlights Posted December 25, 2013 Author Share Posted December 25, 2013 LOL no problems Lillypilly! I've responded to your message. No frenzy intended ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Jupiterlights while I admire your willingness to do everything right for your singleton, including taking on some orphan pups, I would be checking with your breeder about doing so. You said your bitch was on breeders terms, you need to be careful. If I was your breeder I would be less then impressed with some stray pups turning up which may impact on the health of a very precious singleton. Depending on what terms you have depends on who will be actually owning the pup. But I must admit I would also be doing a couple of other things different to what it appears your breeder is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I'm sorry but repro specialist or not, that's bullshit and I do not know of any reputable breeder who gives a crap about their bitches and pups that takes a singleton off it's mother ( unless there is a medical need to ) and then give it medication to dry up the milk,You are seriously underestimating the determination that bitches have to mother, be it a whole litter or a singleton. your little bitch will either have her own puppy .. or no puppy . A soft toy with her pup's scent will drive her batty!! She will KNOW that it smells like her - but is not beinmg a puppy ,and ,if her hormones are all present & correct, will be frantically tryinjg to get pup to move/nurse/make noise ... I could not bear to watch that :( Cut back bitch's food NOW .. and IF she has a normal delivery ..and ,for some reason the poor thing loses her pup ..then just cut back food a bit , keep her active and occupied, and the milk will disappear. Meaning no ( well, not much) disrespect , the things you mentioned sound TO ME like breeding for the sake of it ... not seeing a bond between mum & puppy .....it's a bit like what some farmers do with lambs... ... I am being told that 95% of breeders who have many litters (and are experienced) report 'no problems' with removing pups from their mums. O...K.... This sounds very much like the &^%$#@@ told to a new owner of a baby MONKEY on a TV doco the other night . "The mothers are over the babies by the time we take them away at THREE DAYS old " Sorry .. perhaps some breeders may not see a problem because they are not looking?? I am tearing up here - thinking of bitches who have lost pups, or had a medical condition where pups had to be removed ... and seeing how upset they were. maiden bitch + singleton may be a bit different ... however , mums & bubs belong together as much as humanly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 If I was your breeder I would be less then impressed with some stray pups turning up which may impact on the health of a very precious singleton. yes... gosh .. things can quickly become convoluted , can't they ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I'm all for having a back up plan if things go wrong but taking a pup away from it's mother without giving her a chance is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillypilly Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 jupiterlights - please read what WreckitWhippet, persephone and Rebanne are saying. There is some good advice in these posts. I just cannot believe the breeder of your girl wants the pup removed from the mum after 24 hours. Just seems wrong to me. xx LP xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Jupiterlights, may I suggest you seriously consider what you yourself want and think will be best? You know your girl better than anyone else, but more importantly you will be the one who has to help her in raising this puppy - hopefully she will not need much physical help from you but you will need to watch baby's development and socialisation OR deal with your girl's reaction to not having a baby at all. There are clearly pros and cons to either keeping a singleton with mum or putting it into a litter with a foster mum and both situations have been shown (anecdotally) to work well so I don't know that there is a definitive answer to what you "should" do. I do agree with those who have advised against bringing other pups in with your girl, I just can't see the advantage to THOSE pups or to your girl, and the advantages to your singleton can be given in other ways. Best of luck with your decision and try not to stress yourself out over it. ETA - totally agree with others, don't give her a stuffed toy with the baby's scent on it, that will confuse her way too much, either she should get the baby from the start or not at all. Edited December 25, 2013 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjosa Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I have had two singleton litters and hand raised another singleton for a friend. Two of the bitches were not interested in the puppies at all, these two babies I bottle fed one after five days of frustration with the bitch not wanting anything to do with the puppy, with this puppy he was being supplement fed with Biolac,so I sent the bitch home to the owner and reared him successfully and he was loved and socialised with my dogs when he was old enough, he is very people orientated. With my two singleton litters, the first one was as above, but she never came into milk, that is until about three weeks later, by then of course this baby was doing so well I only then fed the Mother as if she did not have a baby and the little milk she produced dried up in days. The second girl of mine she had a premature litter of three and within 48 hours of whelping the two very small babies had gone to the rainbow bridge, but this lovely girl raised her puppy naturally no supplement feeding she settled right down to the job of raisin g her surviving baby. Personally if this was my bitch I would give her a chance to rear her baby, but should it not go smoothly I would get Biolac in and hand raise the baby yourself, and do as I did with the girl of minAs for e who did not want to nurse her baby I at least let her do all the toileting so that they build a bond, it would be cruel to take her baby away, of course you would have to be home 24/7 until the baby was reared to eight weeks. As for the repro vet all their knowledge is from a book and more often than not never had hands on experience, and of course the breeder of your girl could have been in his ear. As others have said, DO NOT give your girl a stuffed toy with the scent of the afterbirth, it would do her head in and you would have a dog suffering post natal depression, her baby stays with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 My own puppy's mother was a singleton. Her mother, an Italian greyhound had a natural but difficult birth, tiny first time mother, very big puppy, but both survived and the puppy grew up just fine. There would have been no reason to remove the puppy from her mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 I'm all for having a back up plan if things go wrong but taking a pup away from it's mother without giving her a chance is just wrong. Exactly. Nature & hormones usually equip mother with a heap of maternal instinct. Not always foolproof I know but generally overall. 6 times my singletons have been fine & raised by their mothers. I never had to supplement feed them either. One dog once had 2 pups that both died at a day & 3 days old. It was heart breaking watching her searching around for them & she did get quite depressed for a while. They are not machines. Intervene if things go wrong by all means but they may not. Other maybe could occur. Pup is put with other litter & either rejected or squashed. Not an impossibility either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 I had a bitch Whelp and raise a singleton with ease. Within hours I can guarantee that bitch would have been distraught if you had taken her baby away. Over time she went into full on protector mode and yeh good luck to anyone who tried!! If the pup is going to be taken away do it cleanly and early, no scent on a stuffed toy, no leaving it for 24 hours then removing the pup. If of course mum doesn't care about the pup then it's easy, if she does then it is cruel IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 ..When it all boils down tho , if this bitch is on 'breeders terms' is it then that the pup belongs to the original breeder - so their decision stands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 I have had a couple of singleton litters and have had no trouble with the raising of one. Bitches have looked after them and had no trouble with their milk supply. Pups have been fine and socialized with rest of the pack once old enough. They do realize they are in whelp. To let her have the pup and then take it away is just wrong in my opinion. I do hope all goes well with the birth. You never know, she may surprise you and present you with two pups. It has happened even after xrays were taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jupiterlights Posted December 26, 2013 Author Share Posted December 26, 2013 Hi all Thanks for the advice and input from everyone. Breeder and I have had a long chat today and made a decision about how to proceed tomorrow (as she has not whelped yet today). Appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Hope it all goes well for mum & baby . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 The very best of luck for everyone involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinHead Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Hi Jupiter Hope everything went well and that pup and mum are doing well. Just thought I would let you know my min pin was born a singleton as the others from the litter sadly passed in utero. There were no other pups to be raised with,just adult dogs and he is absolutely fine. He still learnt how to play and interact and there were no issues with too much milk that i am aware of. The breeder did an amazing job with him. Wishing you all the best. Edited December 29, 2013 by PinHead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Wouldn't it be better to borrow one of the puppies from the other litter to raise with the singleton puppy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) naw Edited December 30, 2013 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I guess the breeder has it sorted - hope the bitch & pup are well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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