wuffles Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I am an instructor at the local obedience club, have taught many puppy/adolescent/adult beginners classes, and can say that I have seen absolutely no correlation with work status and behaviour of the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 It does prove my point. If you can't understand that, don't bother. It isn't worth my trouble. Just keep getting pups and taking them home, and have them "play up", not know what to do, so send them back. None of you will ever need any assistance,because you are all such experts who never have any problems at all with your dogs. Well done. I am sure you will be able to assist this poster with her problems in a flash. Tomorrow, the dog will be perfect. Well done Incidentally, Wreckitwhipppit NO ONE, except you, suggested any dog needed companionship 24/7 all their lives. You are obviously making it up as you go along. New pups need owners to give some consideration to their circumstances otherwise the situation discussed here, or something similar arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 In all fairness though that's an 8 month old dog who has never been taught to be alone suddenly stuck in a backyard all day. This isn't an issue caused by the owner but one caused by the breeder not giving that dog the opportunity to learn that apart is OK sometimes. Don't blame the breeder - blame the owner for not making satisfactory arrrangements. Blame the breeder for selling a pup which has obviously lived with other dogs, and now has to live by itself, with someone who goes to work. Blame the breeder for not giving advice about how to circumvent the problem, which was sure to arise. While everyone was busily beating me up, you all missed the point of the post because you would rather give me a hard time that read and take in the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 http://www.dolforums...-the-wrong-dog/ This is not a baby puppy - I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make Jed. That one unhappy dog in different circumstances to the original point proves the point, and all the evidence given that refutes the point doesn't count :laugh: No same point, worse situation. Dog taken from a group situation to be the only dog without any thought given to reaction of the dog to being along all day. "Special arrangements". Everyone should make them. They might be different for every dog, but if you buy a pup to be an only dog and expect it to settle in and be happy while you work full time, think again. Exactly the same sitution. The breeder would probably have been one of the nay sayers, but now he/she knows differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 No, this is not an experiment and it is not crap. You are, however, entitled to your opinion. I have been breeding long enough to have seen every sort of disaster known, and a lot of them involve people who work full time. This is aimed at people who want ONE puppy. Wreckitwhippet, I believe you have numerous dogs, so your input is not relevant. I have had pups too - but there have been other dogs as well. I also understood from previous posts that you stayed at home with all new litters? Things have changed apparently. If you are a breeder, and are happy to sell pups to people who will leave the pup alone for 12 or so hours per day, it's none of my business. The person I rejected can go to you to get one. You will be happy, you will have a sale, they will be happy, they will have a pup. Will the pup be happy? No one cares, really. It doesn't matter if you are offended because you have raised one dog from a pup - what matters is making people think before they do it. There are far too many teenage dogs dumped. All of them were wanted pups, some of them wanted by people who worked full time and thought they could cope, and found they had a dog with problems, that they didn't want any more. There are far too many poorly trained and behaved dogs. There are far too many unsocialised dogs, too many fear biters. Working full time is not the cause of all these problems, but it can be one cause. Yep, puppies from me are for people who either don't work, or have something in place so that the pup does not spend 10 - 12 hours a day alone. Yes Jed. I dont care who I offend when it comes to accepting homes for puppies (They call me the bitch in the south :D - and that's the puppy buyers! :laugh: ) I black list on various criteria, better to preempt problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I have never once had a problem with my dog, I got her at 10 weeks and went back to work when she was 12 weeks and never had a problem, no sending her back to the breeder here! If you make a blanket statement like that of course not everyone will agree with you as many people have raised a pup while working with great success. I am very thankful my breeder was willing to let me buy my pup as she is the best dog ever and when I am not at work a constant companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emigremlin Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Just to clarify. My dog was never left alone for more than 4 hours. I did try leaving him with another dog (still less than 4 hours) and that didn't work either. So many many people who are not working full time would still not be able to provide this dog with what he needs. In fact the behavior manifests during an absence of as little as 20 minutes. He may (short of a massive behavior modification program) require a multi (more than one other dog) home. Or one in which he does in fact have someone home 24/7 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emigremlin Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Just to clarify. My dog was never left alone for more than 4 hours. I did try leaving him with another dog (still less than 4 hours) and that didn't work either. So many many people who are not working full time would still not be able to provide this dog with what he needs. In fact the behavior manifests during an absence of as little as 20 minutes. He may (short of a massive behavior modification program) require a multi (more than one other dog) home. Or one in which he does in fact have someone home 24/7 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Just to clarify. My dog was never left alone for more than 4 hours. I did try leaving him with another dog (still less than 4 hours) and that didn't work either. So many many people who are not working full time would still not be able to provide this dog with what he needs. In fact the behavior manifests during an absence of as little as 20 minutes. He may (short of a massive behavior modification program) require a multi (more than one other dog) home. Or one in which he does in fact have someone home 24/7 . No such thing exists unfortunately - even the most housebound people need to go out occasionally. A multi dog household may work. In your case I consider it to be the breeder's problem to solve and to their credit they have offered to take the dog back. Don't try and solve it yourself - not worth the heartbreak and the dog would probably be much happier elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Just to clarify. My dog was never left alone for more than 4 hours. I did try leaving him with another dog (still less than 4 hours) and that didn't work either. So many many people who are not working full time would still not be able to provide this dog with what he needs. In fact the behavior manifests during an absence of as little as 20 minutes. He may (short of a massive behavior modification program) require a multi (more than one other dog) home. Or one in which he does in fact have someone home 24/7 . Without knowing all about the situation - as a breeder, I would not home a pup of that age, who has been used to living as part of a group (I presume) to a one dog household. He may improve as time goes on, but you will need to do the hard yards with him, one way or another. Good luck. It takes 3 months for a dog to settle into a new home. Some appear to settle earlier, but they are simply being polite, and they are not really settled. Some, like yours, make their unhappiness known. And I agree with what Rosetta said. Edited January 13, 2014 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'm yet to have a puppy bounce, end up homeless or in a pound and I have rehomed to many "working" homes, they would represent the majority. It's shown me that despite working, there are a great number of owners out there who manage to raise puppies to happy, well adjusted adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think we can probably all agree that leaving a baby puppy, or even an older puppy, completely on its own for 10-12 hours consecutively is a bad idea. Methinks a lot of people are adopting the mantle of righteous indignation when they were not even the type of owner being described in the OP.... I understand that some people would feel offended if anybody, anywhere, at all, made a statement that might vaguely concern them not being good owners but most people seem to be just plain missing the point Jed has now re-clarified about 5 times..... Yes, the phrasing of the OP was confrontational and not very.. umm.. well put, but some people seem to be purposely misunderstanding now. Not sure if from lack of reading or previously mentioned righteous indignation... Good post. I read Jed's opening post - I was able to understand it and agree with it too but so many people have chosen to go off the deep end and on the attack. I cannot believe how obnoxious some people are - well actually I can, I've been on the receiving end. I turn people down for rescue dogs regularly, but that's my prerogative, I've invested both physically, emotionally and financially into the dogs I rescue and I won't sell them short, I will wait until I find the home that suits their specific needs, most have already had crap lives to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) It does prove my point. If you can't understand that, don't bother. It isn't worth my trouble. Just keep getting pups and taking them home, and have them "play up", not know what to do, so send them back. I really can't understand how it proves your point. You said baby puppies shouldn't be left alone while people are at full time work, that dog isn't a baby puppy. You said visiting at lunchtime and pup going to other people's houses during the day is included in the special assistance you believe people need, both of which were apparently done in that case. You made clear you were not talking about cases where there was another dog for company, the owner says she borrowed another dog for company. Plus the new owner didn't have the dog as a baby puppy to work full time or not, with or without special assistance, and again you specifically said it was babies who shouldn't go to full time workers. So no, I can't understand how that situation proves your point. I suppose I will have to keep getting puppies, having them play up, not know what to do so send them back, if that's what everyone who can't understand how it proves your point does :confused: Edited January 13, 2014 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'm yet to have a puppy bounce, end up homeless or in a pound and I have rehomed to many "working" homes, they would represent the majority. It's shown me that despite working, there are a great number of owners out there who manage to raise puppies to happy, well adjusted adults. What about those dogs who are past the puppy stage into adulthood though. Do you rehome your adults? From a breeder's perspective what type of home would you be looking for in those cases given that the dog has grown up with plenty of company? Just wondering what criteria breeders use when looking for a home for older dogs - a bit different to a puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'd hope its a case by case basis! I imagine there's no better judge of what each dog might need than the person who has raised or lived with them for years. As lovely as it would be for a magic formula to appear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'm yet to have a puppy bounce, end up homeless or in a pound and I have rehomed to many "working" homes, they would represent the majority. It's shown me that despite working, there are a great number of owners out there who manage to raise puppies to happy, well adjusted adults. What about those dogs who are past the puppy stage into adulthood though. Do you rehome your adults? From a breeder's perspective what type of home would you be looking for in those cases given that the dog has grown up with plenty of company? Just wondering what criteria breeders use when looking for a home for older dogs - a bit different to a puppy. I have rehomed adults both pedigree and rescue. Oddly, the majority of people who apply for an adult rescue already have an adult of the breed. Of the last four rehomed rescues, only one of them has gone to a single dog "working" home. My last pedigree adult I rehomed went to a lady who works full time but already had another adult. When it comes to adults, those applying usually have breed experience and already have a dog or have recently lost one. Yes my adults have had other dogs around but they sleep separately, fed separately , spend time alone, are given one on one time that does not involve another dog, are run with different dogs, they are not dependent on the others and have no issues in being rehomed to a single dog household. I'm looking for homes that want the dog to be part of the family, to sleep inside and be inside dogs when they are home. I'm also looking for those who wish to include the dogs in their activities and take them places. It's the quality of the time the dog spends with the family, not how many hours the family are home during the day. I also look at breed experience and carefully consider the expectations of the new owner, if the dog cannot meet them or they are unrealistic, then I will not place a dog. Studies have indicated that dogs end up homeless because they fail to meet owner expectations, so if a new owner can tick the boxes in terms of time and care and the dog ticks their expectations then they probably a good match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 My neighbour came to see me yesterday and they have started ringing CKCS breeders for a pup and they said out of the 4 they rang within the first 2 sentences they were told that "they would not be breeding with it". They have no intention in breeding all they want is a Blenheim puppy from a good breeder that will be a loved and well cared for family pet, desexed, vaccinated yadadada. I spent a good 20 mins talking to them about continuing their search for a breeder that explained why breeders had this attitude rather than ones that barked it at them as they have been quite put off by the way they were spoken to. These are really good people that can offer a dog an exemplary home which I can vouch for, they are doing their research have waited for over 10 years to get one and one of them has retired so he/she will have company. The husband has just gotten a rescue pup to be outside with him during the day and within days has built an amazing safe yard for when he isn't home and is building a dog house with verandah, lookout etc. I strongly advocate going to registered breeders but the passion that comes out to a puppy buyer can be seen as attitude and condescension which is why a lot of people end up looking at pet shops, gumtree and rescue. These people are convinced that they want a good puppy so if anyone has any recommendations preferably in SA can you let me know please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I think if your breed of interest has a large BYB market then you will probably need contacts or a thick skin to be able to deal with their pedigree breeders, as these people would have heard it all in terms of excuses, reasons and blatant lies in order to obtain a puppy to use as a breeding dog in a BYB or mill set-up. I would like to take this opportunity to point out how this creates a giant catch 22, even though I am sure everybody here is already aware of that. I have, myself, seen threads on DOL where members jumped on people who were simply uneducated, when they had a popular byb breed and were innocently asking questions about breeding. Instead of taking the opportunity to educate somebody like this, some reactions were quite violent. I would always recommend that puppy buyers write an email instead of making a phone call for the first contact with an unknown breeder, this way they can order their thoughts and describe themselves and their requirements in detail, and also copy and paste this to send to several breeders. This way the breeder gets an idea of the knowledge and quality of the home before getting a chance to be abrupt and potentially scaring off inexperienced puppy buyers due to sheer annoyance, acquired over a bunch of crappy puppy inquiries. I realize that some breeders find this attitude offensive and might even prefer phone calls but I believe that this approach has the best chance of success, mainly with inexperienced pedigree puppy buyers. I used this approach myself when looking for my first pedigree puppy and can happily say that I got no rude or abrupt answers to my inquiries as most breeders either had a copy and paste response with some basic info ready or were happy to have a chat on the phone after the initial email. I'm not even going to mention any criteria I might have if I were a breeder as I can just about hear the outraged arguments in response to my requirements lol :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) What a load of codswallop. Could not disagree more with the OP There are so many variables. I know people who are at home full time and cannot manage their children let alone a pet/puppy/dog. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But that is a very large call to make about everyone who works full time. Edited January 16, 2014 by Mystiqview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 If breeders are annoyed by enquires why not set up a website and incorporate a questionnaire for potential buyers to complete and respond to that. Also make it clear on the website what your expectations are. Pretty simple really and would weed out many "undesirable" enquiries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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