OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It is extremely offensive that you think that a vast majority of kennels have nothing in place and don't seem to care. You have no idea at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I am set up for an emergency Evacuation. I am quite sure a vast majority are. So what was the purpose of the post below? as the way I read it is that kennels do not have large dog trailers as they can't afford it, hence the request for donations As an aside if anyone wishes to donate the money required for kennels to purchase large dog trailers feel free! I know what I would do, but that's me. You are making very general, uneducated, sweeping statements on a subject you know nothing about I will be rectifying this and embarking on a crusade to fully educate myself on all things regarding "boarding kennels" and will probably use social media to educate Pet Owners on boarding kennels and if required, agitate for change to better protect our Pets in boarding kennels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Okay... I'm browsing thru these posts... to some extent I'm not surprised at how many judgement calls are being made about how people should have done certain things....... frankly there are many online experts out there who think they know what others should do..... I shall make some points and perhaps I am one of the most relevant to discuss this here as I am in the position to be somewhat an expert on this situation so hopefully I shall give some of you food for thought and consideration how to handle things in relation to bushfire...etc.... I run a boarding kennel in a rural location near bush...We went thru the 2009 Black Saturday Fires...Fire came 500 metres from our property.. We survived as did all our charges... FIRE RISK IN BOARDING KENNELS Firstly, remember most kennels are not in the suburbs... Councils don't allow that hence these business operate in either semi rural or industrial areas...don't think that the major risk of fire in a boarding kennel is from bush fire... ALL kennels could be at risk of fire.... consider any one of the large kennels who carry 200-300 dogs perhaps in factory style settings... loads of concrete so you might think this is safe.... however they have insulation, plastic, electric circuits, air conditions, freezers, all of which are combustable and capable of producing toxic smoke and fire... they might cater to huge number of animals even on multiple storey perhaps they have fire sprinkers, perhaps these work perhaps not.... Factories burn down all the time even tho they have sprinkers.... and remember it is not likely the fire will kill the dogs but the lack of oxygen and the smoke... Remember too that the staff cannot be expected to keep rushing back into a burning building to put their own lives at risk to save the dogs and cats..... OH&S won't accept that. EVACUATION OF KENNELS Someone mentioned that a kennel should have a truck with compartments set up to evacuate dogs on days of high risk...... Consider what and how evacuate means. * Kennel then need someone with a heavy duty driving license available 24/7 to meet the need.... difficult but not impossible... * We are not allowed to transport dogs in an open crate type arrange (cattle truck environment) must be an enclosed truck.... cost perhaps $150,000 to fit out a truck with insulated cages and don't forget the airconditioning - that would sit in the driveway just for that possible situation... * Even if you had the truck.... say 200 dogs and 40 cats...you would say 6 staff to load the dogs one by one... plus perhaps 3 people with 20 cat boxes to jam the cats into just to load....this could take a few hours.... remember you have stressed people and stressed dogs.... you don't want any dogs getting out during the loading or else you will have people critise.... * Where do you evacuate to and for how long.... the local hall? or the local football ground? * Ohhhh don't forget we need to make sure we have adequate food to cope and staff to handle the workload. * What level of fire risk do you need to evacuate. HIGH, EXTREME... (in which case I might have had to evacuate perhaps 3 times already and its only Jan 5). * So lets imagine we have succeeded in loading all our charges into a vehicle/truck whatever... and we are driving out.... which way is the safe way to drive... REAL LIFE SITUATION When a fire is in the region.... suddenly all the best laid plans can fall apart.... perhaps the first real indication of imminent risk is when the town water is turned off.... also perhaps the power has gone... landline is also gone... which means internet is unreliable... we didn't have even a TV to see whats going on out in the rest of the world. Even the mobile phone reception becomes irratic.... hence we check out the web site for CFA .... it is not accurate... by the website we were already charcole. Truth be known I don't have time to monitor the website anyway as I am busy filling up water buckets to place in the pens and jam as many dogs into the safest building as possible.... My staff and friends can't even get in to help as there are roadblocks stopping them coming..... so its just me, hubby and two teenage kids.... We spend the day filling up the petrol pumps at the dam...manning the fire pumps and wetting down the gardens around the building to prevent spot fires.... bringing the horses close to the house.... locking our own dogs and cats into a building.... filling washing machines, sinks and baths in the house and piling up blankets, towels and mops for the ready. Taking a quick drive to check with neighbours and luckily one of them is out on a motor bike and bringing back news of where the actual fire is located as the CFA scanner is just people reporting heresay information that was pretty inaccurate. All was going well, we were prepared.... 4 pumps... loads of water..... helicopters flying overhead all day collecting water from lake behind our property.... BUT THEN... darkness falls.... everything looks different... helicopters are now grounded and information gets worse..... WHAT HAPPENS AFTER... We are locked in for the next three days.... if we leave we can't get back.... so we knuckle down with no power... no refrigeration.... only the bbq to cook the defrosting food which we can feed ourselves and the dogs.... at night we can't risk using the generator as we are now low on petrol for pumps. POLICE OR COUNCIL.... We had only ourselves .l... this was for three days until I drove out to get food, batteries, fuel and bottled water, then had to drive back thru a new roadblock by just ignoring the police and driving around.... Don't even get me started on Councils.... they were all out creating almost a party mood at the refuge centre... hosting visiting celebs and media and patting each other on the back about how good the community was doing... yet NOT ONE COUNCIL officer bothered to drive thru our residential village to see who was alive or to bring much needed fuel, food, water... or even just to see if we were alive... and we were a community of approx 500 homes and they are the ones who have the voting register of who lives where....sheese! WHERE FROM HERE We would still stay... we have a good location... we know our area and how the fire system works....we have well built solid kennels where dogs won't be locked in with smoke as their biggest enemy... we have loads of water and pumps.... but even so.... there are many things that we have to rely on for luck.... Note: this is the only response I intend to make... if people want to judge so be it.... I guess you can't account for the uninformed comments such as a previous poster has mentioned. Edited January 5, 2015 by alpha bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I am set up for an emergency Evacuation. I am quite sure a vast majority are. So what was the purpose of the post below? as the way I read it is that kennels do not have large dog trailers as they can't afford it, hence the request for donations As an aside if anyone wishes to donate the money required for kennels to purchase large dog trailers feel free! I know what I would do, but that's me. You are making very general, uneducated, sweeping statements on a subject you know nothing about I will be rectifying this and embarking on a crusade to fully educate myself on all things regarding "boarding kennels" and will probably use social media to educate Pet Owners on boarding kennels and if required, agitate for change to better protect our Pets in boarding kennels. I was being a smart arse. Good for you. Luckily that is exactly what lots of boarding kennel owners have already done. I for one take my job extremely seriously. I know I am not alone. Edited January 5, 2015 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Thank you Alpha Bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 forget it no point arguing with uneducated dickheads typical immature response when people can't articulate their argument/point of view, they lash out instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 forget it no point arguing with uneducated dickheads typical immature response when people can't articulate their argument/point of view, they lash out instead. Your responses about the owners of the kennels has not be pleasant. Alpha Bet, I truly appreciate your expressive post. Thank Dog you and your family got thro' that horrific ordeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 forget it no point arguing with uneducated dickheads typical immature response when people can't articulate their argument/point of view, they lash out instead. I tried you are not listening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDJ Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Thank you Alpha Bet for your information - before your post I was already in the 'not in a position to know enough to make any sort of judgement' camp - and your points have only confirmed that. Interesting that one poster had time to respond to a 'cat fight', but not to your detailed post Also, for those who say 'they should have evacuated' - where to ??? There are at least 5 other boarding establishments that I know of in the fire area (and there are probably more) - so if everyone evacuated, then there are 500-600 animals that need to be put somewhere for upwards of a week (it is still not safe) Beyond tragic for all involved - the time for answers is once people have FACTS, not before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 AlphaBet you are amazing. That post is perfect, I'm glad you guys got through it. I can't believe how awful some people are being. I'd like to see a situation where the owners could sit back and say "we did enough" I don't feel that would ever occur, you suffer loss like that and you're going to obsess over the details and what could have been changed, hindsight is awesome like that. Personally its a horrible freak accident and I'm not about to start blaming someone from my safe bed. That's counterproductive and wasteful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think after this horrific tragedy, there will be many pet owners (myself included) asking kennels for full disclosure of their evacuation plans in emergency situations. Or perhaps rethinking leaving their dogs in kennels in urban fringes at the height of the Australian bush fire season? After all, ultimately who is responsible for the safety of my dogs. IMO it's me. Evacuating a kennel is logistically extremely challenging. Getting dogs and cats out is difficult enough. Having somewhere to take them is the other big ask. There are risks associated with transporting and relocating pets, particularly in emergency situations where volunteers with varying degrees of skill and judgement must be used. You want a cast iron evacuation plan? Then be prepared to pay a hefty premium for it. It won't come cheap to the kennel owners. I'd like to see people not vilifying the kennel owners for what was, in hindsight, an error of judgement. They have lost everything. They thought they'd be safe staying. They were wrong. That is a situation that has confronted many many people confronted by bush fires in this country and my guess is they wont be the last. Sitting in judgement on the internet without full possession of the facts is what I expect on social media. That doesn't make it right. It certainly is not compassionate, nor helpful to those who have suffered the loss of their pets. Mourn what has happened, hope that other kennel owners learn from this tragedy and cut these poor buggers some slack. There will be a time to ask questions and gather facts but now it's all too raw. Have a heart for pity's sake. They are suffering enough. I have seen zero evidence to suggest that they didn't give a damn about the animals in their care. Yes, thankyou HD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Thanks "alpha bet" for your very informative post and thank dog you, your family and all your charges survived the horrible nightmare you were confronted with. I will include the info you have provided in the educational pack I am currently compiling. What stands out for me is the level of preparation and work you and your family did to ensure the safety of the pets in your care and most importantly, both you and your husband were onsite "doing everything possible" to ensure the safety of the pets in your care.. If kennels decide not to evacuate when it is safe to do so due to some/all of the reasons you have outlined in your post then the very least pet owners like myself would expect is for the owners and their families to do everything possible to protect our pets in their care like you and your family did. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case in the TTG kennels tragedy with the husband reportedly out fighting fires as a CFG volunteer and wife away on holidays and apparently no supervising adult left in charge. Yes I know myself and others that dare to question what he was doing out fighting fires away from his property when he should have been helping protect the pets entrusted in his care are being crucified, as apparently being a firefighter volunteer absolves you from any other responsibility. I am following up on this line of inquiry as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yes I know myself and others that dare to question what he was doing out fighting fires away from his property when he should have been helping protect the pets entrusted in his care are being crucified, as apparently being a firefighter volunteer absolves you from any other responsibility. I am following up on this line of inquiry as well. Can we have rolly eye man back yet? I don't even know where to start on this BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 forget it no point arguing with uneducated dickheads typical immature response when people can't articulate their argument/point of view, they lash out instead. Your responses about the owners of the kennels has not be pleasant. Alpha Bet, I truly appreciate your expressive post. Thank Dog you and your family got thro' that horrific ordeal. Purpose of forums is online discussion, so of course we are not always going to agree/like what another posts but one must live in hope that posters can post their views/opinions in a mature way and avoid name calling. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Thank you Alpha Bet for your information - before your post I was already in the 'not in a position to know enough to make any sort of judgement' camp - and your points have only confirmed that. Interesting that one poster had time to respond to a 'cat fight', but not to your detailed post Also, for those who say 'they should have evacuated' - where to ??? There are at least 5 other boarding establishments that I know of in the fire area (and there are probably more) - so if everyone evacuated, then there are 500-600 animals that need to be put somewhere for upwards of a week (it is still not safe) Beyond tragic for all involved - the time for answers is once people have FACTS, not before Two reasons: Firstly I was responding in chronological order, Secondly, alpha bet's post was very lengthy and I was tired and wanted to re-read it with fresh eyes in the morning so I could respond appropriately, which I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Given the very large number of pets that were boarded there I wonder is it wise for this to be allowed by councils in high risk bush fire areas ? If evacuation is needed to be done quickly does anyone question if they have enough vehicles, crates, staff or nearby help to ensure that this can be done ? Were there sprinklers in the kennels ? Was there an efficient evacuation plan in place ? Questions to be thought about. I cannot imagine the organisation that would be need to get so many animals out but having nowhere to go is not an issue or excuse. AWL, RSPCA, SACA even a shopping centre car park in the metro area or even the side of the road would have been options until they could take advantage of the thousands of offers to help from the public too. They made an extremely bad judgement call by not taking up offers of help to evacuate when they were offered & now they must live with the horror & guilt but that is no consolation to all the pet owners so naturally most people are upset & being very judgemental. What does anyone expect. People get hated & judged for far less serious matters in life. Edited January 5, 2015 by Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yes I know myself and others that dare to question what he was doing out fighting fires away from his property when he should have been helping protect the pets entrusted in his care are being crucified, as apparently being a firefighter volunteer absolves you from any other responsibility. I am following up on this line of inquiry as well. Can we have rolly eye man back yet? I don't even know where to start on this BS. I couldn't agree more, would have been all I would have used in this reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 forget it no point arguing with uneducated dickheads typical immature response when people can't articulate their argument/point of view, they lash out instead. I tried you are not listening If this whole situation wasn't such a tragedy, this would have me . You are casting this aspersion at labadore simply because she disagrees with your position. She could just as well say the same about you. And you are the one posting insulting remarks and calling people names ..... simply because they don't agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Given the very large number of pets that were boarded there I wonder is it wise for this to be allowed by councils in high risk bush fire areas ? I'm not sure what the definition of high risk is, but there hasn't been a major fire in that area since Ash Wednesday in 1983. And the one before that was about 30 years back again. Edited January 5, 2015 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 ...... in hindsight, an error of judgement. Oh, well that's okay then. We can all go home and forget about. Haredown Whippets has spoken. :mad I'll bet you wouldn't be so sanguine if one of your dogs had been in that that kennels. They, and other businesses of all kinds, are paid not to make judgements of error and when they do, they should be investigated thoroughly. From all accounts, this was more than a judgement of error: it was a blatant disregard for the all the warnings, all the offers of help and a head in the sand mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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