evm Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Hi! Not sure if this is the right place to post this so please remove if it's not! Anyway, here's the issue... We live on a dairy farm and have 4 dogs - an english staffy, 2 border collies, and a 3 year old border x rough collie (Tilly) who we adopted a few months ago... Tilly was great for the first month, gets along with our other dogs no problems, is a great working dog but is also happy to laze around inside or play with the kids. A month in though, after having no issues at all with recall or her running off, she started digging holes under the fence and taking off into the bush after wallabies. Doesn't matter if she sees a wallaby while she's still in the yard or not - she knows they're out there somewhere :/ We filled in all the holes, put rocks along the entire fence line, did everything we could to stop her from being able to go under the fence - so she started going over it We rent and did ask if we could alter the fence to make it higher or even install a whole new one, but were told no... The previous owners apparently took her hunting a lot - although we weren't told this until after we decided to call them and see if she ever did this to them, and what they did to stop it. She apparently never did, but I guess she didn't need to :/ Each time she goes she stays away for hours - the first time was the longest where she was gone for 9 hours with me terrified the entire time that something had happened to her and she wouldn't be coming back. We visited every neighbour within a 10km radius to ask if they'd seen her and to ask them to contact us if they did, we followed her trail through the bush but no matter where we went we couldn't find her. Eventually she just made her own way home... Anyway - she now spends most of her time either inside or at work (where so far she hasn't run off), the second you put her outside at home though she's gone and it doesn't matter if you see her do it and call her back, she doesn't even look :/ She's just gone and there's nothing you can do except wait for her to come back. We still look for her every time, but we haven't had any more luck than we did the first time - sometimes you hear her barking in the distance but again it doesn't matter how much you call her, she doesn't come. If we do catch up to her she won't come over to us, just takes off again. We have found some of her 'kills' before - she doesn't eat them though, she just kills them and takes off after the next one :/ Other than on these occasions though, she's fantastic with recall - comes every time! :/ I just don't understand it and I'm at my wits end. Other than moving to somewhere with a higher fence I have no idea what to do! Generally for taking her outside to the toilet or to the car to go to work she is kept on the lead so she can't escape, but every time the kids open the front door (she doesn't do it when it's me or my partner - just the kids) she's there trying to squeeze through and sometimes she manages to get out and she's gone before anyone can even comprehend that she's out... What we're doing is kind of working (other than her squeezing through the door but that is happening less and less now that I've stopped the kids from opening the door themselves most of the time), but I still feel bad for her that she is stuck inside so much while the other dogs get to play outside as much as they like :/ Basically I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to train her to stop doing this? Other than when she's taking off she really couldn't be more of a perfect dog and I just don't know what to do to stop this one issue, or if there is even anything we can do :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Have you thought about a hot wire along the fenceline? You can get these as cheaply as $50-60 on Ebay, but if she's determined she will push through a mild zap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evm Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 We have considered it but we had heard that they don't work very well and are a waste of money? I'm thinking it's probably worth the $60 though just to see for ourselves whether it will work or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 It worked for us, but certainly doesn't mean it is a guaranteed win for you guys, just trying to think of easy to try things before you have to resort to building a run or similar. Sucks having drivey dogs sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I honestly don't think you're going to train a dog out such fantastically self-rewarding behaviour. My primary concern would be that she'll have the others following her if she keeps it up. Unless you can train a bomb proof recall and catch her in the act (to recall her), you are down to managing it via prevention. Have you considered putting in a concrete floored run? That way you'd have someone where safe to put her when she can't be supervised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evm Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Sorry I should have mentioned that we do have a run - I'm a big sook though and hate using it, she always looks so sad when she's in there, just lays down at the door straight away and whimpers... I prefer having her stuck inside, although we do use it when we're going to be out for more than a few hours... She has a bed, plenty of toys, a fresh bone every time she goes in there - but generally when we get home after hours of being out she is still laying at the door looking like we've abandoned her Haredown Whippets, our staffy did follow her once when she was still going under the fence - she came home very sore though and has never shown any interest in going again... And so far the other border collies have shown complete disinterest in going anywhere without a human present - but they are both young and I do worry that as they get older that will change... I'll give the shock fence thing a go I think, and maybe try some more training techniques to get her to like the run - I just feel so guilty for using it though? Maybe I just need to get over it and realise that there really is nothing more I can do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 We have two border collies & live on a cattle property with heaps of wildlife. We have an electric fence for the cattle. Our house yard is fence with 90cm high dog wire & 15cm from this runs a hot wire around the top. Our dogs have never tried to escape the yard. If they were diggers then I would also put a wire 15 cm from the ground around the bottom of the fence to stop them digging under. Electric fences are a godsend. Usually they will only touch it once, then stay away. One of our guys is fine with wildlife & he runs free when we go for a walk, but the other has to stay on a lead as she is a fearless chaser. She doesn't kill, but she will chase. If she can't find something to chase then she will roll in something disgusting :laugh: So its on the lead for her most of the time. Do you take your guys for a couple of walks a day to get them out & about ?? And do you do any mental training with them?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Definitely use the run! Play games in there, set up a bed in there and lots of meals in there! Its failsafe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 When they have that much drive (and previous success) even hot wires may not be enough to stop them. I know of an ACD who would see a kangaroo and then line herself up to take the hit from the house fence. To her the kick from the fence wasn't enough to deter her. It was just another hurdle to the thrill of the chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Yeah I'd have her inside or use the run. Very difficult to train a dog out of something so satisfying and fun! You could try the electric fence too, can't hurt. Otherwise you risk her getting into trouble if she's on someone else's land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 eCollar on the dog. A proper one not a fencing one. And of course a trainer to help you use it. Before anyone has hysterics this is probably the only situation that I would suggest using it. This dog does not have long to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Best Dogs! Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Can you see if your landlords will let you install ...idk the proper name... A coyote roller? It makes it so they keep slipping off the fence. I saw one recently and considering it myself...you can make home made ones too, check out Google for how? Edited August 21, 2015 by Thistle the dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4darlingdogs Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Multiple strands of hot wire and use a good quality unit...the kind you use for cattle. Use the wide white tape which is also a visual cue for the dog once it gets the idea that the white tape hurts. The first time you let the dog out in the yard with the newly re furbished hot wired fence wet the ground and wet the dog. I would also put the rolling pipe along the top of the fence so the dog can't get a grip if it jumps. I would use the run if I was going out. All the best I hope you can find a solution that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evm Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Thank you so much to everyone who replied, some great ideas for us to look in to... I've been looking up bomb proof recall training which I think (if we can train her) will help, it won't stop the issue as she'd still have to be kept inside the majority of the time, but I am always quick on her tail when she does get outside, so it would help for those occasions... And also ways to encourage her to like her run... I spoke to my partner after he got home from work and he thinks he'd be able to extend the cattle electric fencing to our house yard without any major issues - he's going to look in to it a bit more tomorrow, but if not then we will try the inground fencing from ebay... Thistle the Dog I had to look up the coyote roller thing - looks like a great idea! Thanks :) JulesP I'd like to leave the e-collar as a last resort, but if it's the only thing that will work then I am open to it... Sheena, Tilly goes to work 5 days a week, getting the cows in for milking twice a day and following my partner around the rest of the time. We take all of the dogs for a walk at least once a day, more on Tilly's 2 days off... Our staffy also goes to work a lot, but spends most of the time asleep at the dairy - she's way too lazy lol. The 2 younger BCs have recently started going too but only for an hour or so at a time... We don't do any real training as such, but we try to keep them as busy as possible by either playing with them or giving them things to play with on their own. We also have a bit of a hobby farm set up here and they help with that - even when their help isn't overly helpful lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 So it sounds to me that while she's working she is happy, but indoors or in the yard she is going to look for more happy which in her case is hunting - it is not unknown for a good stock dog to work well on sheep or cattle at home and yet chase and sometimes savage livestock on other properties (as you probably know) so to not let her hunt alone (even if it is just roos and bunnies) is essential. If the shock wire doesn't work ( it may not) then you need to think really hard about containing her. I would be devising some sort of double doorway system or securely fencing the areas immediately adjacent to the exits from the house so preventing the slipping out when someone holds the door open too long or etc. Use tough love with the run as well, perhaps a big juicy bone while she is in there will keep her happier. Best of luck and I do hope that the hot wires work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I can understand . My Don dog is the soppiest clingiest dog - until he hears/sees/scents something . he works them, doesn't bite or maim ...has been known to bring sheep or single lambs home , using his obviously ok instinctual skills. as we have no yard fence..when he's not with me , he is on a 5 mtr long light chain just near the kitchen ...It is all carefully planned according to his behaviour, any potential dangers, and need for shelter, play room, etc ..and it works so well ! I would strongly urge you to make your girl's run the BEST place to spend a few hours - ALL treats/bones/food get fed out in the run, ONLY . if she has prey drive, how about a bungee chook, or home alone toy from AUSSIEDog toys online? would she roll a soccer ball around? what about a KONG Wobbler with her kibble in? I would introduce a couple of levels into her run (presuming it's roofed) - so she can perch up high & watch things ... maybe as simple as putting a good solid table in there , glue carpet on the top ..and put a sandpit underneath? then she has a shaded sandy spot ..and a perch :) Also, may I suggest a nice high placed birdbath /feeder to provide her with her own "entertainment channel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The thing is, while a sock collar or electric fence might seem cruel, what other options do you have? If she keeps escaping she may get shot by a neighbour, hit by a car, lost in the bush... Hopefully you will only need the deterrents short term but I don't think you have much choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I do NOT think an electronic collar , when used with proper instruction is in any way cruel- and agree with *kirty* about the electric fence ( though how you would set it up I don't know - there would need to be at least two hotwires- ground level and fencetop) .. it is all way better than the alternative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I do hope the electric fencing works. If it doesn't then you need to swallow that lump in your throat and dish out some tough love with the run. You're not hurting her feelings, you will most likely be saving her life. Any wandering dog as you would well know could end up on the wrong end of another landowners rifle, and if its wallabies now who's to say it wont be lambs in a year or two? I'm not saying its a definite but you need to think about all the possible things that could go wrong, and secure containment will put a quick stop to any wandering. Start building a positive association with the run. Feed her in there from now on - its just like crate training but bigger! Allow the run to become 'her' space. Put a clam shell sandpit/pool in there, interactive toys, bones, pop a radio on there. You'll get there and wont have a wandering pup to stress you any longer :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mister Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Our old neighbours had a Basenji that was a serial escape artist. They used a Sureguard collar on him with a wireless boundary so if he were ever to walk past the boundary he'd get a zap. Being exceptionally smart it only took him one or two goes of getting zapped before he learned exactly where the boundary was. Never had any escape issues after that. I'd better add, I'm not privy to any controversy around them, can only repeat what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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