German Shepherds At Crufts

[LisaCC]

Forum rule 6:

No denigration of dog shows or exhibitors (and no show ring 'politics')

Our site actively promotes the exhibition of pure bred dogs. We prefer to concentrate on the 'positives' of this activity. If you have a gripe about what happened at a particular show or the conduct of an exhibitor, please take your soapbox elsewhere.

You know what? This isn't "just a dog show" Crufts is live streamed internationally. It's shown on TV in England, and the reaction this has gotten in the general public is going to have backlash on not just german shepherds but all pedigree dogs.

This isn't just having a bitch about an exhibit. This is going to have quite an affect.

Just look at the Kennel Club actually speaking out against the dog and saying there's a possibility of not having the breed in future shows.

[Dame Aussie]

I don't know how anyone can defend what has happened to these dogs.

Totally agree. It's awful

[BlaznHotAussies]

Very disappointing I love German Shepherds.

These are just wrong.

Why are these what breeders are striving for? The front looks a bit ridiculous to be perfectly honest - that big flick up like a Hackney horse. They're a working dog!

And don't need to even mention the ridiculous topline on them.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Scootaloo

[Dame Aussie]

I get it's a purebred dog site but if no one discusses this nothing will change? is this how we want PB dogs to be?

If so, then give me a crossbreed any day.

[valbitz]

Do these dogs actually meet the standard set for a GSD, I'm happy for someone to educate or correct me about the standard.

I don't know if I need new glasses or need to clean my monitor but does it look like the dogs are walking on their hock's?

[denali]

Do these dogs actually meet the standard set for a GSD, I'm happy for someone to educate or correct me about the standard.

I don't know if I need new glasses or need to clean my monitor but does it look like the dogs are walking on their hock's?

Technically not. Or at least not how i interpret they standard.

[denali]

I personally love this dog from NZ (note she is only young in these pics and not yet filled out).

She also does agility, as did her dam.

However, she has no chance of winning much, if anything, at a conformation show- and i do think thats a shame.

Edited March 15, 2016 by denali

[JulesP]

I get it's a purebred dog site but if no one discusses this nothing will change? is this how we want PB dogs to be?

If so, then give me a crossbreed any day.

It isn't just a purebred site, it is a show site. I assume that the owner makes money from the show stuff on the website.

Things can be discussed in a respectful manner. Saying "maybe we should stop having shows" is not respectful.

denaili's post showing a dog she admires is respectful and positive.

[dog_fan]

I get it's a purebred dog site but if no one discusses this nothing will change? is this how we want PB dogs to be?

If so, then give me a crossbreed any day.

It isn't just a purebred site, it is a show site. I assume that the owner makes money from the show stuff on the website.

Things can be discussed in a respectful manner. Saying "maybe we should stop having shows" is not respectful.

denaili's post showing a dog she admires is respectful and positive.

It is an observation which is just that, neither respectful or nor disrespectful.

So far we have at least 2 threads on dogs being shown and winning where their conformation is suspect.

If people who show or people who breed do not see this as an issue then I despair for pure bred dogs.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Do you think things would improve if they had more judges, ie like ice skating... have several different judges and maybe a vet who specializes in dog structure and movement scoring the dogs? And ditch the score that is most distant from the average score?

I know that would be too expensive for most local shows but it should work for the big ones like Crufts and that huge one in the USA and maybe our Royal Shows...

I don't know what choice that judge had or how dogs qualify to get into Crufts - so hard to say whether she chose the best from a whole group of wobbly GSD.

[Kavik]

Even if all the dogs were like that, I think she could choose not to award

[denali]

Do you think things would improve if they had more judges, ie like ice skating... have several different judges and maybe a vet who specializes in dog structure and movement scoring the dogs? And ditch the score that is most distant from the average score?

I know that would be too expensive for most local shows but it should work for the big ones like Crufts and that huge one in the USA and maybe our Royal Shows...

I don't know what choice that judge had or how dogs qualify to get into Crufts - so hard to say whether she chose the best from a whole group of wobbly GSD.

You can, as a judge, choose not to put anyone up.

its just not a common practice and would have caused even more controversy

Snap Kavik

Edited March 15, 2016 by denali

[Dame Aussie]

Obviously that's what the judges like

[Kavik]

You can, as a judge, choose not to put anyone up.

its just not a common practice and would have caused even more controversy

What a message it would have sent though if the judge had chosen not to put anyone up!

[Scottsmum]

Forum rule 6:No denigration of dog shows or exhibitors (and no show ring 'politics')Our site actively promotes the exhibition of pure bred dogs. We prefer to concentrate on the 'positives' of this activity. If you have a gripe about what happened at a particular show or the conduct of an exhibitor, please take your soapbox elsewhere.

You know what? This isn't "just a dog show" Crufts is live streamed internationally. It's shown on TV in England, and the reaction this has gotten in the general public is going to have backlash on not just german shepherds but all pedigree dogs. This isn't just having a bitch about an exhibit. This is going to have quite an affect. Just look at the Kennel Club actually speaking out against the dog and saying there's a possibility of not having the breed in future shows.

This!!!!!!!!! (above)

Do you think things would improve if they had more judges, ie like ice skating... have several different judges and maybe a vet who specializes in dog structure and movement scoring the dogs? And ditch the score that is most distant from the average score? I know that would be too expensive for most local shows but it should work for the big ones like Crufts and that huge one in the USA and maybe our Royal Shows...I don't know what choice that judge had or how dogs qualify to get into Crufts - so hard to say whether she chose the best from a whole group of wobbly GSD.

Are dogs vetted? I'm not up on this kind of thing but if the dog has trouble actually getting around the ring could it / should it be disqualified from entering the ring on the day?

[Dewclaws]

Does this conformation actually cause any health problems for the dogs ? I am gathering breeding stock stills needs good hip scores ect ?

See while I get that people don't like the look of them if you start not rewarding prices to breeds of dogs that you feel is a ' extreme ' version of the standard then there a many many more breeds who will be banned . Most brachy breeds are much more extreme than the dogs around when their standards were originally written . Coated breeds have ' bigger' coats ( border collies for example ) .

I think if you attack these German shepherds due to their looks then really your attacking show dogs in general .

Because really is a vet going to say a pug is being bred with its optimal health in mind? A English bull dog? How about a shar pei?

You really will be opening a pandora box if you get vets in the show ring .

Not that I necessarily think that Is a bad thing but you can not single out German shepherds without saying that the whole show and purebred dog industry will be massively effected if you got vets in to the ring judging for health .

Edited March 15, 2016 by Dewclaws

[OSoSwift]

I believe at large show such as these, the BOB's at least should have a short "critique" as to why the judge picked them. And yes a panel of judges may well be a good idea.

I haven't yet seen the GSD's at Crufts so cannot comment on them. IS it the judges or the breeders? keep getting presented with extreme dogs they become the normal, keep awarding extreme dogs they become the norm that more people aspire to. Not an easy issue to deal with.

[denali]

Do you think things would improve if they had more judges, ie like ice skating... have several different judges and maybe a vet who specializes in dog structure and movement scoring the dogs? And ditch the score that is most distant from the average score? I know that would be too expensive for most local shows but it should work for the big ones like Crufts and that huge one in the USA and maybe our Royal Shows...I don't know what choice that judge had or how dogs qualify to get into Crufts - so hard to say whether she chose the best from a whole group of wobbly GSD.

Are dogs vetted? I'm not up on this kind of thing but if the dog has trouble actually getting around the ring could it / should it be disqualified from entering the ring on the day?

The dogs are vetted.

The BOB was vetted twice apparently, and the owner released the certificate after the uproar began.

She has won two Kennel Club Challenge Certificates, two Reserve Challenge Certificates and three Best of Breed awards.She also revealed both the British Veterinary Association and the Kennel Club gave her dog excellent health scores in previous tests while a KC breed survey labelled the animal 'a super female of really excellent type'.

I also tend to agree with this post: https://www.facebook...156685029735607

Edited March 15, 2016 by denali

[Scottsmum]

Does this conformation actually cause any health problems for the dogs ? I am gathering breeding stock stills needs good hip scores ect ?

See while I get that people don't like the look of them if you start not rewarding prices to breeds of dogs that you feel is a ' extreme ' version of the standard then there a many many more breeds who will be banned . Most brachy breeds are much more extreme than the dogs around when their standards were originally written . Coated breeds have ' bigger' coats ( border collies for example ) .

I think if you attack these German shepherds due to their looks then really your attacking show dogs in general .

Because really is a vet going to say a pug is being bred with its optimal health in mind? A English bull dog? How about a shar pei?

You really will be opening a pandora box if you get vets in the show ring .

Not that I necessarily think that Is a bad thing but you can not single out German shepherds without saying that the whole show and purebred dog industry will be massively effected if you got vets in to the ring judging for health .

With all due respect. I see what you're saying when you say that to pick on the GSD because of their looks is "really your attacking show dogs in general" - but I don't think that's true. I think it's probably a step too far. I think this article makes a good point:

Commentator Jessica Holm said: 'When you see [a dog] come into the ring that is so hyperactive the judge couldn't get a hand on the dog, was being handled as such that it could not move properly even if it was capable of doing so, the performance it was put in gave us all concern.

'It did not look like a healthy free-moving dog.'

Clare Balding remarked that she thought Catoria looked lame, and vet Nick Blayney said: 'I was quite frankly appalled that a dog like that could be put up as a good specimen of the breed.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3491160/Crufts-cruelty-row-breaks-German-Shepherd-sloped-wins-best-breed.html#ixzz42x5eSCEk

I don't think that the whole conversation about this particular dog is just based on looks. I think people are genuinely worried unhealthy dogs are being selected as winners at such high levels. "Joe blogs" or "Jane Smith" could look at that dog and think either "wow - that's what my dog should look like" or possibly "oh all breeders are the devil" - this particular case doesn't do anything for the work which has been put into trying to correct some of the problems in GSDs over the last few years.

As for the second bolded part - This is something I don't get. Surely if you breed and show one of the most important things to you *should* be to produce healthy dogs? We had a bit of a similar conversation here a while ago about Pet labs Vs Working Labs. But if an animal isn't sound and healthy - it shouldn't be being put forward as a good example of it's breed. Sadly if they pull up lame on the day - then so be it. Happens in the horse world - racing and showing - all the time. Just the luck of the draw.

I'm not saying you need a full and comprehensive medical - but the animal shouldn't be lame or exhibiting other signs of illness.

Edit: Just say Denali's post - saw that image and article after I posted. So maybe the bitch is sound and she was just lame on the day? Unfortunate camera angle?

Edited March 15, 2016 by Scottsmum

[Sheridan]

The ferals are out in force. Not just the AR whackadoodles but show people wanting to kick someone while they're down just because they can. The posts on the Crufts site are just awful.