_PL_

:laugh: Doggy mullet. I totally want to kidnap Smoke.

The wonderful thing about finding reports of this or that, is the way one side or the other has a way of making them prove a point. Like the anti child vaccine arguments. I understand breeders feel passionate about it but it's offensive in the rescue section. We desex. We also care. And the little jibes about it being detrimental and convenient is way out of line. Maybe there is a desexing risk, maybe not. But I'm not interested when frankly on the ground and out of the showring, I'm fed up with pyometra, mammary tumours ....... testicular cancers and enlarged prostate tearing open a massive hernia in the poor boys. I'm fed up that it could be prevented and the dogs we get have been suffering, sometimes terminal. There is zero need for people to have an entire pet if they can't prevent matings, or tell what a uterine infection is and can't see a tumour hanging of their dog's balls.

note to self; make sure you don't have a full coffee cup or a full bladder before reading one of Maddy's posts.

Actually, I just had a flashback to a dog rescued from Hawkesbury. She was rescued and then going straight to a new home, she was safe so I was never given her photos to post. All good. Happy ending. But her NUTCASE fellow rescuer told the adopter that I had deemed the dog not worth saving. A dear little old senior foxy. The owner made a fuss, created a FB page for her all about big bad rescuer deeming his dog not worthy and better off dead. The point to that was; As was stated in another thread, it attracts people who can be worryingly unstable or just downright crazy. Substance and alcohol abuse can be involved as well. I think sometimes that's what those on the outside-looking-in are seeing.

Haredown, sorry but do you have a link to veterinary studies or papers? PM is fine, I'm very interested now you've brought it up. Long story and very off topic. :) Let me google. :) This website looks like a good start I see white dogs rate a few mentions for cancer too. Another Excellent! Thank you :) :)

Haredown, sorry but do you have a link to veterinary studies or papers? PM is fine, I'm very interested now you've brought it up. Long story and very off topic. :)

I understand it's confusing. I'm just explaining what happened and what the deal is for the dog and for you. Sometimes lies about temperament get told, just to get a save. There's currently a rescue facilitators' dogs sitting in other pounds and they (the 'rescue') aren't answering calls. There's dogs being rehomed undesexed by people who are given pound dogs in the same 11th hour scramble. And pound dogs being bred from. & I'm not going to dredge up a horror story from years ago but it was about the worst outcome you would ever expect. Just to make sure dogs don't get euthanised at the pound. It may have worked for you and the rescue - I'm glad it did but, it doesn't always. Which is endlessly frustrating and damaging to rescue in general. They are also very fortunate that you are honest and will hold up your end of the bargain. Once a dog is physically in someone else's hands the rescue has zero control and presume the microchip is enough to get it back. So you got your dog, but you still need to understand that even if a group doesn't run that way, it's not in an attempt to be rude or unreasonable, or hold onto every dog. They are trying to get it right not just crossing fingers and hoping. OK, the Rottweiler being through 3 different rescues is a red flag. That's not normal. And as for the reasons for your refusal...some I see as reasonable if it's relevant to the dog in care and adoption policies. Case by case. But overweight? I thought I'd heard everything. Did they do a yard check and then eyeball you as well? Maybe I'm too fat to rescue :laugh: Haredown, I should have just said what you did. LOL, too much rambling today. as usual, edited for spelling!

You seem to have 2 gripes, first being communication which is what this thread was about. Second, if I've interpreted correctly; You've gotten a group to pull a dog out of the pound and given it to you with no vetwork done then that is not "rescue". That's facilitating. That is you choosing a pound dog and them using their council approval to get it out for you. And I hope you don't need to return it anytime soon because they have no obligation to help. You can also take the dog and vanish because dogs are property, there's no law to force you to do anything with it let alone notify them. If they are happy with this method then fine but you are now pleased because someone took a gamble on a dog's future. Short story is you wanted what you wanted, weren't interested in a rehoming process unless it went your way. And now you have a dog. You barely knew the dog and are fortunate it worked out. Unfortunately it seems like this has cemented in your mind as the right and reasonable way to do things. BUT Rescues aren't always wrong or weird because they turn down a home. Sometimes they actually care for both the dog and the people. This is a common complaint but it's not your place to decide how long is "too long". If you were rehoming your own dog I'm sure you would take as long as you want to find a home you felt happy with.

Ernie is so cute :)

It's true that not everyone is involved in rescue for the same reason. But being different isn't the problem as long as the animals are always the ones who positively benefit. Not everyone in rescue is going to agree, they don't need to. Trying to fit everyone into the same box gives people a black & white view of good and bad aka ethical and unethical. I rescue slow and steady, I do come under criticism (or just plain nastiness lol) re; by being slower and doing things like application forms and home visits, means I'm letting pound dogs die. But my way works for my dogs, & won't be changing to keep up with the Joneses. Is that ethical or unethical? Depends on the beholder. If I could offer some observations that usually go ignored :laugh: ...... There's the demands of the general public to take more and more. -- You need to learn to fight guilt and learn to say no. You can't save everyone. There's imagining your skills and ethics as being much better than the reality. And doing things like getting in up to your neck in animals you can't properly pay for or care for. -- You need to totally get real about what you can and can't do. Or even why you do it. There's the gratification of proving your success by just making money. And using all sorts of imaginative ways to make it. Or how quickly you can raise an 'army' to go slam someone for you. Or getting off on how many likes and comments one of your posts makes. -- You get noticed, but not in a good way. Your rescue network begins to shrink, other rescuers and volunteers take a step back when they know your stories are bullshit or malicious. Be honest. Lies bring you undone. There's a thought that you have worked it all out. -- No you haven't. Nobody ever will. Not even Winograd ;-) And there's a lot of glory seeking and people getting hooked on the attention, desperate for praise and approval. Some regularly have a tantie. Or flamboyantly 'quit' but can't stay away when starved for attention and drama-- You aren't all powerful. You aren't the indisputable Answer. Your adoring crowd doesn't equal good rescue work. You need to have the self confidence to keep moving without constantly being told you're an angel. You aren't, and it doesn't matter anyway. In the end it can be thankless and isolating work. I'm sad to see longevity in rescue is becoming a rare thing. (edited because I only notice spelling mistakes after posting )

Oh Anne I'm so sorry. You must feel lost without him. xxxxxxx

Thank you all so much. Stressy, I'll let you know immediately when I finally get antlers. :) T, I've just stolen that photo :laugh: Spoony, thank you very much, right now I think we're sorted but if a job comes up for you I'll inbox you in a flash. hehe This is all very good timing. I'm just back from a specialist surgeon pre-op consult.... well if you don't laugh you'd cry. These critters love running up bills. Bless 'em.

Oh my god those poor dogs. If they don't know what causes it and how to treat it, no wonder it has spread. I hope our distance and quarantine protects us.

:laugh: I'll be sourcing veggie ears that look like the full ear with the gross earhole bit LOL (not the chopped off ones we've got for now) so a lab chomp may be needed :D :D and eventually antlers when we can afford them. Could be a while. lol (Thanks viszlamom for sending me the perfect antler link! )

The bill put forward in NSW to ban pet shop sales a few years ago didn't get far. Clover Moore tried but it was dead in the water once the pet retail industry sent in their cronies. Even if they did win, retail is only one part of the problem. NSW will now be the haven for commercial breeding facilities and nobody can stop them moving in from other states and getting permits to run (if they have to). The RSPCA is left to seek them out, but they can't act outside the law. AJP; no idea how they plan to accomplish things but if they do it will be a miracle. I'm not going to name their own slimy "organisation", who will fight welfare legislation that doesn't suit them. Creating their own version of how to identify a puppy farm. Which is: as long as it is clean and up to the minimum standards then it should be left alone because it's just commercial or large scale. According to them, the good the puppy farms have been innocently dragged into discussion by dimwit activists who don't know the difference. At a dog function last year, I sat down and the fellow guest next to me tried to give me a farmer org member's business card. I knew the name and it went down like a lead fart.

Oooh I love cav faces! Totally kissable. You have very beautiful helpers there. :)

Very much the kind of breed aka 'a lot of dog' that will bounce back to the shelter if they don't find someone with experience. I'm not going to criticise their policies, they don't sound wholly different to others but it's a true shame there isn't a little wiggle room or at least better communication in order to open up a few more opportunities for a very special type of dog. Or any dog for that matter. The difficulty in dealing with them is NOT unique by any means in pounds, shelters and rescues. It does make me wonder what's going on in there with the volunteers though. They sound completely frazzled and unable to cope with the heavy demands of an open shelter. Nor the changes in what the public expect from animal welfare workers. & No undesexed dogs in the home policy is not unique either. Oh and those reviews... LOL, charming.

'Some' yes, but more than enough to go around! :D I bailed from FB anyway, it was exhausting and I can't afford to waste the time. Some of the stuff going on was so wrong but prepare for a kick up the butt if you point it out. That doesn't surprise me at all. I've witnessed similar. :eek: And they didn't get the boot? Too scared of a full-on war?

:) I'm sure they appreciate that. It must be a hard and thankless job at times. That poor vet up in NT, Jenny Wells... what she must have been through to go so far off the edge. A tragic example.

Vet check at your vet before discussing a refund. Full stop. Don't accept any other options or let them dictate terms. They've probably convinced themselves you'll be able to influence your own vet but that's too bad. Dig your heels in, you were specific in your purchase contract which they signed and agreed to but put simply it's an honour system, you can't enforce it without civil action. Money is your only leverage right now.

Yes, Winograd's U.S.-centric book is used like a bible in some circles. And the 'no kill' message gets translated into literally save everything with a heartbeat. I think there's a lot of factors that go into burnout and the vicious infighting between rescues, activists, members of the public and pounds; doesn't help. Rangers for example, get absolutely slammed if they mark a vicious dog as not for sale. Some crazies go as far as death threats. And I've seen it. NFS dogs getting all the attention while the other dogs get ignored until the last moment if at all. Then there's the poor vets.

Sorry, I've been offline. I'm glad to see my off topic hoarder ramble might have little relevance with cruelty and neglect cases like this. It's interesting to hear the examples because I think we've all looked back on someone eg the local crazy lady who had a zillion animals. The place where everyone in the community knew if there was an unwanted pet or a litter of kittens they could always be thrown over the fence or left on the doorstep. She really loves animals and won't say no....... To see in hindsight, that it wasn't normal or caring but very very sick. The collectors in rescue (or those sourcing from rescue/pounds) scour hundreds of different pages on FB and use a few aliases to get what they want. Unfortunately it's not yet in the DSM and even plans to undo the complex damage and prevent repeated hoarding are still a work in progress.

That's the million dollar question. Recidivism rates are quite high I just can't find the exact % right now. I did a bit of reading up on the subject, mainly due to rescue and the easy availability of animals.The new problem of pets being sent to anyone, anywhere just to save them isn't helping and is actively enabling very unwell people. I wanted to know the difference and evolution of a hoarder. And seeing so many rescuers called hoarders when people don't like them. There's lots of people with "too many dogs". Not all of them are ill. Ironically puppy farmers are quick to plead hoarding if they get caught. Anyway ... rambling on. lol :laugh: :laugh: Could be completely wrong. http://vet.tufts.edu/hoarding/

There's different sections, I think you'd be in the training section if you're worried about ongoing issues. Have you begun a thread about your anxious dog? If not, do that right now. Right now, before getting the new dog. You will receive some great advice. No :) Not as far as I know. Unless you have a trainer or have maybe gotten involved in obedience classes or dog sports where you will meet dog savvy people that you can fall back on. There's always Dol for a bit of support. You mean returning the dog? It will only help if you have adopted from a reputable rescue with a backup policy. This is another advantage of rescue over pounds if you aren't feeling confident but as juice says, not every rescue is equal or honest. Yes, you can return the dog to the pound or rehome yourself. Maybe you will find a rescue who takes surrenders but often the available spaces need to go to pound dogs. Some may offer assisted rehoming, i.e. you keep the dog while they advertise for you No :) respite care would probably be you getting a dog walker, sending the dogs to doggy daycare a couple of times a week or boarding them. Carer board, sometimes. But carers are really the ones who need respite sometimes. Again, any spare foster carer spots are quickly filled with a new pound dog. In the end, you have to realise that when you go to the pound, buy a dog and bring it home, there is no obligation for rescues to offer to take the dog for you if it doesn't work out. Rescue focus is on pound dogs, because they are the ones who die. You as a member of the public have taken on full responsibility for the pound dog you select. Many choose to rehome mistake purchases themselves because sending a dog back to the pound classes it as a 'surrender'. These surrendered dogs have no mandatory holding time and can be put to sleep at any time.

Pounds and rescues. There was also a couple of chinese whispers floating around, as they do. Much of what is described is hoarding behaviour. Unstoppable and oblivious to the needs or suffering of the dogs they collect. Punitive punishment may feel like justice but it it can never stop a desperate person with family to enable them. Charges will just keep getting added as fast as they are dealt with. Compare it with a greyhound case from years back, or the recent horse hoarder case right down to the rotating of animals through different properties. A lot of extraordinary effort goes in to keeping the animals. I'd even say he did not set out to be neglectful or cruel and probably still believes he loves and protects his dogs, even rescued or saved some. animal hoard explanatory model (Tufts)