_PL_

'Some' yes, but more than enough to go around! :D I bailed from FB anyway, it was exhausting and I can't afford to waste the time. Some of the stuff going on was so wrong but prepare for a kick up the butt if you point it out. That doesn't surprise me at all. I've witnessed similar. :eek: And they didn't get the boot? Too scared of a full-on war?

:) I'm sure they appreciate that. It must be a hard and thankless job at times. That poor vet up in NT, Jenny Wells... what she must have been through to go so far off the edge. A tragic example.

Vet check at your vet before discussing a refund. Full stop. Don't accept any other options or let them dictate terms. They've probably convinced themselves you'll be able to influence your own vet but that's too bad. Dig your heels in, you were specific in your purchase contract which they signed and agreed to but put simply it's an honour system, you can't enforce it without civil action. Money is your only leverage right now.

Yes, Winograd's U.S.-centric book is used like a bible in some circles. And the 'no kill' message gets translated into literally save everything with a heartbeat. I think there's a lot of factors that go into burnout and the vicious infighting between rescues, activists, members of the public and pounds; doesn't help. Rangers for example, get absolutely slammed if they mark a vicious dog as not for sale. Some crazies go as far as death threats. And I've seen it. NFS dogs getting all the attention while the other dogs get ignored until the last moment if at all. Then there's the poor vets.

Sorry, I've been offline. I'm glad to see my off topic hoarder ramble might have little relevance with cruelty and neglect cases like this. It's interesting to hear the examples because I think we've all looked back on someone eg the local crazy lady who had a zillion animals. The place where everyone in the community knew if there was an unwanted pet or a litter of kittens they could always be thrown over the fence or left on the doorstep. She really loves animals and won't say no....... To see in hindsight, that it wasn't normal or caring but very very sick. The collectors in rescue (or those sourcing from rescue/pounds) scour hundreds of different pages on FB and use a few aliases to get what they want. Unfortunately it's not yet in the DSM and even plans to undo the complex damage and prevent repeated hoarding are still a work in progress.

That's the million dollar question. Recidivism rates are quite high I just can't find the exact % right now. I did a bit of reading up on the subject, mainly due to rescue and the easy availability of animals.The new problem of pets being sent to anyone, anywhere just to save them isn't helping and is actively enabling very unwell people. I wanted to know the difference and evolution of a hoarder. And seeing so many rescuers called hoarders when people don't like them. There's lots of people with "too many dogs". Not all of them are ill. Ironically puppy farmers are quick to plead hoarding if they get caught. Anyway ... rambling on. lol :laugh: :laugh: Could be completely wrong. http://vet.tufts.edu/hoarding/

There's different sections, I think you'd be in the training section if you're worried about ongoing issues. Have you begun a thread about your anxious dog? If not, do that right now. Right now, before getting the new dog. You will receive some great advice. No :) Not as far as I know. Unless you have a trainer or have maybe gotten involved in obedience classes or dog sports where you will meet dog savvy people that you can fall back on. There's always Dol for a bit of support. You mean returning the dog? It will only help if you have adopted from a reputable rescue with a backup policy. This is another advantage of rescue over pounds if you aren't feeling confident but as juice says, not every rescue is equal or honest. Yes, you can return the dog to the pound or rehome yourself. Maybe you will find a rescue who takes surrenders but often the available spaces need to go to pound dogs. Some may offer assisted rehoming, i.e. you keep the dog while they advertise for you No :) respite care would probably be you getting a dog walker, sending the dogs to doggy daycare a couple of times a week or boarding them. Carer board, sometimes. But carers are really the ones who need respite sometimes. Again, any spare foster carer spots are quickly filled with a new pound dog. In the end, you have to realise that when you go to the pound, buy a dog and bring it home, there is no obligation for rescues to offer to take the dog for you if it doesn't work out. Rescue focus is on pound dogs, because they are the ones who die. You as a member of the public have taken on full responsibility for the pound dog you select. Many choose to rehome mistake purchases themselves because sending a dog back to the pound classes it as a 'surrender'. These surrendered dogs have no mandatory holding time and can be put to sleep at any time.

Pounds and rescues. There was also a couple of chinese whispers floating around, as they do. Much of what is described is hoarding behaviour. Unstoppable and oblivious to the needs or suffering of the dogs they collect. Punitive punishment may feel like justice but it it can never stop a desperate person with family to enable them. Charges will just keep getting added as fast as they are dealt with. Compare it with a greyhound case from years back, or the recent horse hoarder case right down to the rotating of animals through different properties. A lot of extraordinary effort goes in to keeping the animals. I'd even say he did not set out to be neglectful or cruel and probably still believes he loves and protects his dogs, even rescued or saved some. animal hoard explanatory model (Tufts)

Brilliant!! All sorted then :) Perse, I'll PM you, just need to run off the the shops while the torrential storm has let up a bit. Think you could get Don to do some 'beg' poses? :laugh: Between you and Denali this is a dream come true! Thank you so much ladies

I know that name from years ago. Why did they let it go on so long? more Without saying more it would be helpful for this to be posted on some of the fb rescue pages.

:cheer: Woohoo! Thank you so much! Sounds perfect. Will PM you. "good photographer" = much better chance of getting decent photos than me. I can only get outside photos to look ok, add this weather, add a few photobombers who will go bananas over treats. Then the model doing a runner to enjoy said treats on the lounge .... it's just never going to happen. I love dogs. LOL xx Anna

I can't guess either, it could be anything. Your home visit assessment is only as good as the person who does it and what they've been instructed to check. And how they communicate that back to the rescue. Might be best to just call for an answer. :) Or try another group. S.A.F.E. has been around over ten years. Meaning they have probably perfected few things. ;-)

All sorted :cheer: thank you ladies. ___________________________ Okies; thought I'd ask here just in case. It's never ever going to work at my place .... or with my skills. The deal is I send some treats to you in the mail wherever you are, you pose a doggy chomping on each one or holding one in their mouth (ideally a muttley/s of any age or size or silver-muzzled sweeties because this is for rescue) and do whatever tarting up you like. Some of the treats are small in size. Maybe smaller models would work better? No idea really. Your work is up to you completely, doesn't matter if you do the white background thing or completely natural as long as the treat is clear, close-ish and the doggie looks happy to eat it LOL. No problem for you to pop a small © at the bottom for your credit and obviously the treats stay with you. :laugh: If you like, we can advertise you on our links blog if you're a business or sole trader .... you'll be publicly thanked anyway unless you prefer otherwise. The treats are natural australian sourced. There's around ten(?) types. I can't send buckets-full due to our budget. We're a registered charity, this is a fundraising activity. :) And if anyone knows a wholesale australian sourced antler person please PM! xx Anna

Or many neighbours :laugh:

found the website. Livestock is sheep for fleece I think. They have TM, Great Pyrenees, and Pyrenean Mastiff There's a link with a hugely long copy&paste thingo about 'Farm Law'. Must have something to do with whatever was going on and how he believed it meant nobody could touch him. :laugh: Then there is this re farm law; link And a broken link about livestock guardians. :)

This is what the original breeder of these dogs thinks. He's sorry. http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/nov/13/inventors-idea-regret Same Rutland Manor lady involved but I can't remember her name sorry The 'cobberdog' name gives me the heebies :laugh: I don't know anything about developing breeds but isn't this the way it is done? Apologies if that's a dim question, not my field of expertise obviously. I went and looked at the RM website and on the home page she says she did not invent the breed. She also connects the "labra... dle" and "cobber dog" directly. Ie effectively says they are the same thing. And she says she's a member of the MDBA. And it's nothing to do with the guide dogs associations. Personally I agree with Wally. I've not met one that isn't crazy and difficult to train. Most of the owners seem not that interested in training. And increasingly the ones that show up at my local park - get themselves into trouble with other dogs. Not just mine. They've got no dog to dog manners - I'm guessing because most of the pet shop ones got taken away from their mum and littermates too young to learn. Sorry I meant in reference to this bit: "I wonder how much input Rutland Manor, original breeder of these dogs" Answer being: lots. Which rightly or wrongly for the people that know, will always taint the name of the labra & oodle and whatever else it is rebranded as. adding Then you have the buyers, and after acquaintances purchased a designer pup (that I won't identify) w/ all it's papers exactly like reg breeders, + parent testing records, desexed chipped vacc health check, 12 weeks fully socialised, lifetime return, lifetime support, play days with other owners etc etc. Literally the full package. ..... How do I poke holes in that just because the dog is not ankc or rescue?? To them, that is a pedigree dog from an ethical breeder. And it's grown into a sound dog. Not the temperament I like but perfect for them.

:happydance: :happydance: Happy Birthday Stan! What an amazing party you lucky chap. xx anna

Thank god you have posted in this manner, cavNrott. I have been jumped on from a great height from time to time suggesting that, shock horror, vets might actually either not know what they are talking about or, even worse, thinking of their bank account. It's like people getting into a lather because an animal is diagnosed with a heart murmur. 99% of animals, including the human animal, if they live long enough will have heart murmurs or heart problems most of which will not need medication or be controlled by medication. Yes, good advice from both experienced Dolers :) I'll echo DD and also say that to me, some LP grade diagnosis done by hand is, pointless, wrong or too 'by the book'. eg One of our adopted seniors was taken to their family vet after a sudden seizure, the owners left later with no answers or tests re the seizure but booked in for an LP surgery on the tiny tiny 13yr old. They said they felt bad, very guilty and feeling like they had done wrong for not doing it already. Of course the surgery was cancelled when they were able to think about it properly; and change vets. No idea about insurance either but you'd not really be providing useful info as nobody seems to be able to give you the exact grade or recommended treatment. You'd only be able to confirm anything with a radiograph. In which case they would need to know.

This is what the original breeder of these dogs thinks. He's sorry. http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/nov/13/inventors-idea-regret Same Rutland Manor lady involved but I can't remember her name sorry The 'cobberdog' name gives me the heebies :laugh: I don't know anything about developing breeds but isn't this the way it is done? Apologies if that's a dim question, not my field of expertise obviously.

thank you. I'm so sorry for the loss of Guinness.

Not a bad idea.

Riverstar, she makes a dog's one too, in smaller bottles :) it's flavoured like bacon and easy to sprinkle on their food or blend it in. It has no herb or 'strange' smells which have put my fussier off dogs in the past.

No need to respond here. Just let it slide off the page. :) I've posted so people googling might find Winnie's diary (which is in very early days). I couldn't find any 'real life' accounts of a dog going from diagnosis to treatment to recovery. Maybe it will help someone. However, I am a daggy writer; don't pay too much attention to the rambling. lol Acanthomatous ameloblastoma (acanthomatous epulis, peripheral ameloblastoma) Winnie's Story Apologies if this is bothering anyone, I'll have Troy delete if you prefer. :)

Just meant I feel like such a sales rep LOL Hugs for Sonny :) x anna

I think I've mentioned this a dozen times on Dol but I stopped my search when I tried Joint Performance and noted visible improvement (we have obviously trialled a LOT of joint support products) add a series of cartrophen it's magic. The dog one comes in bacon flavour. :laugh: They love it. Georgina, the woman who sourced the high quality ingredients and created the formula herself is fantastic.