_PL_

Well done Malti + what Mita said :)

Far too many pyo, mammary cancers and the occasional testicular cancer just for variety. One year we got on such a roll it was just assumed before pickup that there would be one of the above. Clearly stats are going to be skewed when working with pound dogs. The worse they are, the chance of being reclaimed drops to zero.

461 pet shops and 35 rescues - awesomely outnumbered. I don't actually understand the site. They list your name and you write your own page? Probably not a bad deal for anyone without their own website probably helps with google stuff or whatever it is when someone does a web search.

There have been a few threads recently about really dodgy "rescue" groups so I suppose it does hit a nerve, but just because there are a lot of passionate people involved in rescue here :) It's unfortunate that it does seem like a really extra-positive thing when a rescue will take a dog back if something goes wrong, because that should be the default position in my opinion! Exactly. :) Unfortunately not everyone knows if they are adopting from a rescue who rehome and run, saying your policy on returns is a must even if it's just to educate people on what to look for. So it might, sound a little negative to say it up front although at the same time, you're also selecting the right home (with methods some may call OTT) because you know it's best for the dog to not bounce back. Still, some adopters look at you like you're a little nutty suggesting they'd ever part with their new doggy bless 'em :laugh: at least it's a safety net.

I'm hoping I'm missing something but did you just compare restricted breeds to wild animals and say they need to be 'tightly controlled' like wild animals do? LOL, no you're reading too much into it and I did mix the metaphor. I mean BSL has been mentioned here already and just like restricted breeds it would be awful if people own a pet they are afraid for others to see, or in particular afraid to take to the vet (as I gather in VIC they were calling for vets to report pit bulls presented to them for treatment ). Victoria has not only outlawed foxes as pets but also pit bulls? Thats my only comparison here. 'Tightly controlled' refers to the fact that people can and do own exotic pets, and that IMHO acknowledging them with permits gives the owners the ability to keep them without being criminals, and is more helpful for the animals themselves. They are already here, in people's homes. Doesn't mean I want one or want new species imported or want to rescue one or agree with breeding them for a pet market- i.e. the squirrels mentioned in the article link. I want all pets to have access to healthcare and expertise not be hidden away by bans.

It is not almost impossible, it's something that can be measured in a controlled experiment by determining levels of cortisol and making other observations. This area of knowledge is the reason why zoos have changed so radically over the last few decades. Indeed. Which is why I said 'without the experts'. :)

How do we know that keeping a wild animal in a suburban backyard enclosure is caring well for it? How do we know it is not suffering greatly by being confined near humans? Tight control and scrupulous management of feral and wild animals is something that is best determined by experts on these animals, people with suitable qualifications. These rescue people are pushing the line that "with just the right amount of patience and TLC foxes can make a loving addition to any family." That doesn't sound like scrupulous management to me, it sounds exactly like selling pets using very emotive sales tactics. I don't disagree with you that without the experts it's almost impossible to estimate if animals who hate the confinement aren't suffering. But as I stated before in another post, the reptile people began a husbandry society (with experts) recognised by the flora and fauna regulations. You can't begin your legal reptile keeping without being a member because those pets have very specific needs. The methods of rehoming...ok well it's not the way I do it for dogs so can't comment but I don't use the ethos of e.g. love fixes all. And having seen feral cats miserable and confined in an attempt to tame them, yes some individual animals shouldn't be made to live with humans. However anyone can confine a dog or cat because they are 'domesticated'. My point was, hidden and illegally kept pets can suffer when blanket bans exist. That is all. :) No comment on the rescuing, taming or rehoming of wild animals and openly admit I don't have the knowledge. I just believe that keeping track of who sells, breeds or keeps them would be effective.

Reminds me of this little article here from a few years ago. Exotics are in Australia like it or not. They just need to be scrupulously managed. Don't make pet exotics suffer because people are too scared to take them to the vet for help. A bit like the BSL people have mentioned. Pets are pets, ferals are ferals. Restricted breeds and wild animals are being kept in the community and there isn't much anyone can do about it except make sure they are well cared for and tightly controlled. Banning things drives them underground.

Sorry about your little Loxy Kirty how sad. re the keeping of odd or exotic pets. There's plenty of wild species being kept in captivity or as pets depending on what you want from an animal. You can't exactly cuddle a tortoise but people do own them. Because of the reptile and amphibian keepers in NSW, a license and class system was put in place so the authorities can keep track of who owns, who sells and what experience the owner has. Beginners aren't allowed to have (for example) brown snakes but may begin with a Children's Python once they join a herp society and learn about care & keeping. Maybe, when enough are being kept the DPI and Parks&Wildlife will bring in the same setup. It wouldn't be a bad thing. Best for the foxes because they are here and people will keep them anyway. Dingoes: regulated. ACT had the same for native or exotic birds. In VIC you were allowed to keep certain marsupials under a similar system. Not sure if it's still going. Good luck to the group, it's a novel idea :) but I'd be putting energy into having pet foxes recognised and regulated somehow because no matter how stringently you check homes or how diligent you are with your rescue, owners do on-sell pets to the wrong people. That's where we'll see trouble and negative publicity. It's too early to speculate how well this new idea will work. Dogmad, they pretty much established that ferrets perish in the wild within a short time and aren't like their weasel cousins. Their breeding season is weird too and that makes it more complicated again, getting a wild colony started just hasn't happened (or would be 1 in a million) as far as I know.

You'd have to get one as a tiny baby, work hard and hope that you got a docile human focussed one? Like feral cats and wild dogs. You could maybe compare them a bit to dingoes who are technically a wild animal but also kept as pets with very specific needs. :shrugs: There must be quieter individual foxes because they selectively bred them in that russian fox farm until they were domesticated. Anyway I'm just waiting to see one out on a walk around here in a little bling harness. :) Just to complete the unusual sights you see in the inner west.

I saw this on the free local newspaper stand but forgot to go back and get a copy. The online version is being slow to load for me so I haven't found the full article. Sydney Fox Rescue (sorry if this is too low-res)

Melcatlady I remember you and your little boy. :) Kitty cat Mike was adopted by a sweet young family and thank you again for transporting him!

Because I'd probably ask him to fill out a form and have a yard check done. :laugh:

So can she still see? I'd ask the specialist if theres' anything bad about postponing, watching the progression until she's a little older and a bit easier to keep quiet. I believe you'd have to keep her very quiet while her eyes healed. Eyeball hardening and pain (failure of the procedure) couldn't mean your only option is PTS - only removal of the bad eye. And you still have a blind dog anyway. I can't imagine that even if you do go ahead that there's a chance you will lose her. She may just be blind, and dogs do adapt. If you try, and it doesn't work at least you know you tried. But keep in mind, specialists do have to warn you of worst case scenario of any surgery, inadvertently making you think the worst is going to happen.

Holey moley :o T you dag. Thank you. (Cheque is in the mail. :laugh: )

What about all the people who do have a rescue dog and had no problems with adopting. Love these threads where everyone joins in saying rescue are harsh and unreasonable with no people skills and wouldn't give them what they wanted.

Have they said exactly when and with what substance the dogs were poisoned? It would be relevant. Some poisons are so nasty there would have to have been somebody literally right there to get them to the vet in time.

Sad isn't it. Remember the good old days when it was just a lonely angry blogger bashing away at the keys LOL. Now you put it all on FB and shove it people's faces. Don't get me started. I need to start a hate page for FB. :laugh: You wouldn't believe how pleasant rescue is now I can't see the nonsense. & If I was PR I'd have left that shit off my rescue page, it's drawing attention to exactly what everyday supporters don't need to see. eta if anyone loses their job or promotion over that list then yes most certainly they could sue the entity for damages to income and future employment and it would stand up in court.

I think so. You can't try to prosecute someone doing exactly what you are doing. Or at least it's very hard even if the slanderous material is rock solid. Then the other side produces reams of previous material and the whole thing becomes too messy for time-poor lawyers to get involved with. The very first thing they'd ask is Do you have any skeletons in the closet? I do feel very sorry for the published names people. If I had been added to the 'secret' group (which would never have happened btw :laugh: ) I probably would have stayed there just to watch the stupidity. And what MN doesn't realise is that some people (not fans of PR either) have been abused and booted from that group for asking very reasonable questions re WTF are they thinking. So of course there will be people on that list who were silent readers. It's become a mess, a grudge match between two women. And completely undoing rescue in a bloody FB feeding frenzy. Stay away.

Here 'tis old thread

I saw that 600milliondogs thing (I'm sure it has a PETA guy running it) ages ago, the site didn't have much info at the time but I got the impression that it was going to be used for feral populations and street dogs that are rounded up and culled as a means of population control. Not as something freely available to anyone who wants to desex random dogs. eta: apparently if it works by triggering the animal's own immune system response it's a possibility. I'm sure someone on DOL told me that.

Before knickers get further tangled (taking this thread with it) maybe you could both sort it out via PM or another thread? :) I understand you both need to have a say but it's just going to go back and forth yes...no...yes...no....etc etc.

Councils have always had final say about what leaves their facilities under rescue and where they go. What happened there? The system is being neglected and misused not just by one group, I'm not sure why anyone who can do something about it pretends it's out of their hands.

Sorry to interrupt ladies. :) If non rescue people are reading this and finding it hard to follow how this happens in the NSW system this is the general plot: There are welfare aspects and lawful things you definitely agree to when applying to the DLG for a NSW 16D which is purely an exemption from council registration under the Clause 16D of the Companion Animals Act and what you need to get dogs out for a nominal fee. However many other things rely on an unwritten honour system or the facility staff & managers to insist upon. Like if a dog is questionable or 'rescue only' or even if you would like to use the pound as free board while you advertise, you morally shouldn't tell the pound a foster carer is collecting the dog for further assessment, vetwork and rehab under the group: then send in an adopter who is paying you for the animal that day. It's wrong, but not spelled out in the legislation. HP and BP did require clause holders to sign a desex guarantee form once they introduced their own council desex policies. Loophole: That desex agreement fails when those clause holders choose to transfer to anyone else acting as a "rescue" but not recognised and obliged to answer to anyone. Loophole: no 16D required for animals under 6 months or animals already lifetime registered (incl entire animals). No tracking of unchipped neonates leaving pounds. Loophole: out of state groups do not need our NSW regs or their own state's equivalent of a 16D to take any amount of NSW animals they can get. So there is zero tracking once they get out of the NSW system and become another jurisdiction's responsibility. Clear as mud eh. And IMHO 'Ethical' is becoming as meaningless an advertising catchphrase as low-fat or no-kill. It took forever to get the 16D applications reopened again and at this rate it's not looking fantastic for the future. If rescue doesn't self regulate in some way the hammer will fall on the good and the bad.

I order it from the UK but have found Prokolin is very effective for a combined probiotic & binding ingredient for stomach upsets. :) I often add raspberries to natural yoghurt for a bit of a treat too.