Incident Yesterday .... Child At My Side Gate Wanting To Pat My Dogs

[Maddy]

I would put a sign up saying 'beware of dangerous dog.' Even if they aren't most people would think twice about trying to pat the dog. Or I would put up a baby gate style rig up so that you're dogs can't get down the side of the house to the gate.

maybe just put up a sign saying something like ' beware of the dog' - i think if you say something like 'beware of dangerous dog' and they nip someone, you can still get in trob 'cos you are acknowledging that the dogs are dangerous.

silly really, since it's your property andyou sound like you are doing the right thing.

I'd be avoiding the word "beware". It still implies you have something dangerous living in your yard.

[Ravyk]

I would put a sign up saying 'beware of dangerous dog.' Even if they aren't most people would think twice about trying to pat the dog. Or I would put up a baby gate style rig up so that you're dogs can't get down the side of the house to the gate.

maybe just put up a sign saying something like ' beware of the dog' - i think if you say something like 'beware of dangerous dog' and they nip someone, you can still get in trob 'cos you are acknowledging that the dogs are dangerous.

silly really, since it's your property andyou sound like you are doing the right thing.

but even a 'beware of the dog' could be seen as warning people that your dog could attack them, thus admitting to a dangerous dog because you've felt the need to warn people of the dog. Its stupid but these things happen.

If I had to have a sign on a gate, it would say 'Please shut the gate, we have dogs'

Edited July 27, 2010 by Ravyk

[noisymina]

I am looking at putting a new fence/gate in front of the existing gate (in line with the front of the house) but this can't be locked because the meter reader will need to get to the meter box which is why the gate was initially set back to its current place.

Actually it CAN be locked.

Check with whoever does the meter readings and find out who the local locksmith is who provides the locks. They charge you for it and give you two keys with it. Then the meter reader uses his master key when he wants to get in to read. Ours has always been re-locked by the reader and the system works well for us.

[OSoSwift]

I have "dogs running free" Works well here.

Throw the idiots over the fence in with the dog. Might end up with less of them that way?????

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I have a "beware of dog" on my gate.

The meter readers are supposed to knock on the door to check the dog is secure before they check the meter, though not all of them do this. My dog likes some of the meter readers, and hates some of them, so it's better if they knock.

And SA legislation says she's allowed to defend her yard / property.

I have yet to find any real law case where someone was held liable for dog bites because of a "beware the dog" sign. I wonder if this "don't put the sign up" is a myth. I really think the meter readers would have a case if you didn't have a sign up and your dog surprised them. Though I haven't looked for or found any legal cases about this either.

I imagine if kiddie was at side gate, kiddie was trespassing on the front yard to get there? That makes the parent liable. Though it's generally only enforced if trespassers refuse to leave when asked. Ie to get rid of current affair type reporters, you say "you are trespassing on private property, please leave now". It won't get them off the footpath though.

PS the parent in this case needs to be taught what an aggressive dog can look like ie signs that a dog is not friendly...

Edited July 27, 2010 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[The Ark]

I imagine if kiddie was at side gate, kiddie was trespassing on the front yard to get there? That makes the parent liable. Though it's generally only enforced if trespassers refuse to leave when asked. Ie to get rid of current affair type reporters, you say "you are trespassing on private property, please leave now". It won't get them off the footpath though.

Have you had to do a lot of this, Mrs RB?

The "dogs running free" sign sounds like a good idea - it won't stop all idiots but might stop meter readers etc just bumbling in and leaving gates open/not properly locked. Anyone know where you can buy them, or did you print your own?

[Keshwar]

'beware of dangerous dog.'

you NEVER put this sign up. You are admitting you own dangerous animals and if something happens it will be on your head since you admitted they were dangerous. Even 'Beware' and 'caution' signs will point to you as the accountable one.

I used thin brush fencing from bunnings, it will bend with the gate swinging or have the end over the gap. Just cable tie it on.

As for the sign, something like 'dogs on premises' is enough. If some dickhead child tresspasses on your property to stick his hand through the gap in the gate that is his or his parents problem for raising a child that has no respect for other peoples property. You could even argue provocation on the unattended childs behalf since he purposely entered your property, walked up to the gate and did god knows what to the dogs.

Can you provide a link to a court case or any other legal document that proves this?

I have asked this question every time this statement is made and to date no-one has been able to provide proof that this is the case.

[Esky the husky]

Put a mirror on the gate

Underneath put a sign "beware of dumb human"

[Red Fox]

Put a mirror on the gate

Underneath put a sign "beware of dumb human"

:D

[Jacquiboss&scoop]

we found our dogs running free sign at the pet barn , they had them with their beware of dog and please shut the gate signs

[CBL]

With regards to the meter reading - we contacted our electricity provider and now do our readings ourselves. We have a form to fill out by certain dates (and when OH forgets it just goes on the average previously). Once a year they contact us and arrange a time to come and do an official reading themselves.

[Roseclipt]

We had to double fence our acreage for these reasons - stooopid kids and stoooopider parents thinking it was OK to poke sticks into our dogs through 6 foot chain wire. And after the JW's ignored two sets of gates, and 9 of our Danes nailed them in a large mud puddle, we added the sign "Attention. Large dogs running loose on property. Please sound horn". So far (18 years) this has worked well - except for a remarkably nosy Neighbourhood Watch person who decided that we ticked all the boxes for "local drug dealer".

[Nekhbet]

Can you provide a link to a court case or any other legal document that proves this?

I have asked this question every time this statement is made and to date no-one has been able to provide proof that this is the case.

It comes down to common law. If you put up a sign stating 'dangerous' or 'warning' you are admitting your animal is liable to cause harm to a person, more in the range of the dog will use excessive amount of force to an average dog (which is why Victoria wanted bitework trained animals caged, some would in all probability not just stop at one chomp or warning bite). Australian law now also has a new meaning to the term 'dangerous' and dangerous dog signs are set with specifications. The government wants these dogs contained properly, imagine a council ranger responding to a call about nutso dogs behind a fence or biting a childs hand and you have a big sign stating 'DANGEROUS' on your gate.

If you simply put 'dogs on property do not enter' then legally you are simply making people aware of the fact there are dogs on the property, not technically promising aggressive or territorial behaviour. If the person continues their illegal activity of tresspassing then they will be covered under this part (Vic)

(2) The Council must not make a declaration under

subsection (1)(a) if the incident occurred—

(a) because the dog was being teased, abused or

assaulted; or

(b) in the case of injury to a person, because the

person was trespassing on the premises on

which the dog was kept; or

© in the case of injury to another animal,

because the animal was on the premises on

which the dog was kept; or

(d) because another person known to the dog

was being attacked in front of the dog; or

(e) as part of a hunt in which the dog was taking

part and which was conducted in accordance

with the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals

Act 1986.

From the QLD Animal Management (dogs and cats) act 2008

(1) It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence against section

194 for the defendant to prove—

(a) the dog attacked, or acted in a way that caused fear to,

the person or animal—

(i) as a result of the dog being attacked, mistreated,

teased, or provoked by the person or animal; or

(ii) to protect the owner, or a person accompanying the

owner (the accompanying person), or the owner’s

or accompanying person’s property; or

(b) for an attack on an animal, the dog was engaged in

hunting the animal on private property when the offence

happened; or

© for an attack on stock, the dog is a working dog and the

offence happened when the stock were being worked; or

(d) the dog is a government entity dog and when the offence

happened the defendant was acting within the scope of

employment by the government entity; or

(e) when the offence happened, the dog was a security

patrol dog carrying out that function under the Security

Providers Act 1993.

196 Prohibition on allowing or encouraging dog to attack or

cause fear

(1) A person must not allow or encourage a dog to attack, or act in

a way that causes fear to, a person or another animal.

Maximum penalty—300 penalty units.

(2) In this section—

allow or encourage, without limiting the Criminal Code,

sections 7 and 8, includes cause to allow or encourage.

The law does make provisions for dogs to be dogs and in the case of break in/tresspass if it does bite the offender then if the bite is not out of proportion to the action of the offender (excessive force comes into play here as well). EG a dog biting a robber on the leg when he breaks into the house vs a couple of dogs shredding a child to bits if he climbs over the fence. If we look at the abouve section it's vague enough to cover the fact that if you know your dog causes problems or has aggressive tendencies and you do not completely control it, liability falls on your head.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

You gotta love the law.

How is a dog supposed to decide what is "excessive force". If it has previous bad experiences with trespassers, it's more likely to be extra aggressive with good reason.

Ark

No problems with "investigative" reporters and don't want any. So I think it's helpful to know how to get rid of them ASAP. You never know when you're going to be dropped right in it through no fault of your own.

[spottychick]

My friends have this sign on their property

Todays intruder, tomorrow's rottweiler shit!

hee hee

How does that fit in with all this legal guff?

I like the "dogs running free" sign - for all sorts of reasons

[Keshwar]

Can you provide a link to a court case or any other legal document that proves this?

I have asked this question every time this statement is made and to date no-one has been able to provide proof that this is the case.

It comes down to common law. If you put up a sign stating 'dangerous' or 'warning' you are admitting your animal is liable to cause harm to a person, more in the range of the dog will use excessive amount of force to an average dog (which is why Victoria wanted bitework trained animals caged, some would in all probability not just stop at one chomp or warning bite). Australian law now also has a new meaning to the term 'dangerous' and dangerous dog signs are set with specifications. The government wants these dogs contained properly, imagine a council ranger responding to a call about nutso dogs behind a fence or biting a childs hand and you have a big sign stating 'DANGEROUS' on your gate.

If you simply put 'dogs on property do not enter' then legally you are simply making people aware of the fact there are dogs on the property, not technically promising aggressive or territorial behaviour. If the person continues their illegal activity of tresspassing then they will be covered under this part (Vic)

[stuff snipped to save space]

The law does make provisions for dogs to be dogs and in the case of break in/tresspass if it does bite the offender then if the bite is not out of proportion to the action of the offender (excessive force comes into play here as well). EG a dog biting a robber on the leg when he breaks into the house vs a couple of dogs shredding a child to bits if he climbs over the fence. If we look at the abouve section it's vague enough to cover the fact that if you know your dog causes problems or has aggressive tendencies and you do not completely control it, liability falls on your head.

Common law or not can you show me ANY evidence that ANYONE has EVER been prosecuted in Australia for displaying a beware of dog/ Dangerous dog sign?

If these signs did assign liability to the dog/property owner why are Beware of Dog signs so readily available from hardware stores?

Edited July 28, 2010 by Keshwar

[The Ark]

we found our dogs running free sign at the pet barn , they had them with their beware of dog and please shut the gate signs

Yay - I'm off to find one of these signs. Perfect for our place as we don't have a big problem with children coming in, more likely to be dumb adults.

[Maddy]

Common law or not can you show me ANY evidence that ANYONE has EVER been prosecuted in Australia for displaying a beware of dog/ Dangerous dog sign?

If these signs did assign liability to the dog/property owner why are Beware of Dog signs so readily available from hardware stores?

I don't think anyone here is saying a person could be prosecuted for displaying a warning sign, just that (in the event of an attack) such a sign could be considered an admission from the owner that they knew the dog concerned was dangerous to humans.

In that sort of situation, you'd likely have little recourse if council animal control decided that your dog ought to be registered as a dangerous dog and impose on you all the restrictions that a ruling like that would entail (after all, you've already admitted that your dog is unsafe).

[OSoSwift]

I went to our local sign bloke and he made it up. I have also had a sign made up that said Dobermann lives here. He doesn't like them much and must of had a slow day as when I got the sign back it had bite marks out of the letters right the way around the sign. I thought it was quite funny.

[Nekhbet]

I don't think anyone here is saying a person could be prosecuted for displaying a warning sign, just that (in the event of an attack) such a sign could be considered an admission from the owner that they knew the dog concerned was dangerous to humans.

that is my point

a sign cannot be illegal. In case of an incident it just doesnt help your situation.