Shaar Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 A lot of people have breeds they think don't belong in a certain group. In my opinion Shih Tzus should be in the toy group, Great Danes should probably be in the Working group etc, but I go with the theory of if it aint broke don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Re FCI, they have more varieties of Dachshund than we do. Here is their group system: http://www.fci.be/nomenclature.aspx I'm not sure we have the numbers to justify applying the FCI system here, tho' I do think that a spitz group sounds interesting. I think if you were going to add a group you'd have to absorb one just to keep the competition meaningful at group level, and I guess the obvious one to absorb is Non-Sporting. Most of the dogs there can fit well into other groups but I can't imagine actually doing it would be controversy free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 A lot of people have breeds they think don't belong in a certain group. In my opinion Shih Tzus should be in the toy group, Great Danes should probably be in the Working group etc, but I go with the theory of if it aint broke don't fix it. I am curious as to why you think that GDs should be working dogs? The working group really should be renamed the herding group as that is what all breeds in it were originally bred for. There are a couple of other Spitz breeds who should really be included in the Working group though such as the Samoyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) A lot of people have breeds they think don't belong in a certain group. In my opinion Shih Tzus should be in the toy group, Great Danes should probably be in the Working group etc, but I go with the theory of if it aint broke don't fix it. I am curious as to why you think that GDs should be working dogs? The working group really should be renamed the herding group as that is what all breeds in it were originally bred for. There are a couple of other Spitz breeds who should really be included in the Working group though such as the Samoyed I'm a little curious about that too. And I couldn't agree with you more, I am constantly baffled as to why a Finnish or Swedish Lapphund is in working and a Samoyed isn't EDT re-thought something Edited August 18, 2011 by Bjelkier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinsella Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'd love to see us move to the FCI group system. Then I'd not have to wait for all the Dachies to be judged. ;) That's because the little buggers breed in those covered crates ringside. It's just like Bullwinkle, "Now watch me pull another dachie out of the crate" Or covered crates are a portal to DachieLand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 we don't have enough breeds to make any split successful People whinge now that it is too easy,split the groups & you will have groups with a handful of dogs . The system works well for Australia with the brreds we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) I am curious as to why you think that GDs should be working dogs? The working group really should be renamed the herding group as that is what all breeds in it were originally bred for. There are a couple of other Spitz breeds who should really be included in the Working group though such as the Samoyed In general, kennel clubs assign larger breeds that are engaged in some sort of physically active work to their Working Group. In areas of the world where livestock production is economically important, pastoral dogs are placed in the Working Group. In the rest of the world, such dogs are placed in a Herding Group or Pastoral Group, and dogs that were traditionally bred for guarding, rescue, police or messenger work, as well as large Spitz type dogs, are placed in the Working Group. These breeds may also be placed in a kennel club's Utility Group. Working group is predominantly herding breeds but it was the large and physically active that made me think Working or Utility being a game hunting breed (but not a gundog). UK, USA and Canada all have Danes in the Working group. Just my thinking behind it. Like I said, everyone has different ideas about where their breeds belong. Edited August 18, 2011 by Shaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I like the FCI group set up and would encourage this sort of thing to happen which puts dogs into what I believe to be more correct groupings than they are now. In Canada, a huge push was on to put a spitz group in place, and yes, it brought on arguements about Akitas competing against Poms and what exactly would be in the group...double coated, prick ears and curled tail? No easy answer, but I know that I'm for reallocation of all breeds as many of them are just in the wrong spot...but if that's done...ASK THE BREEDERS!!! Don't leave it to the hands of a bunch of registry employees, many of which don't have dogs or even know what breeds are what, never mind the history and/or function of these breeds to help determine where they would be grouped. Another arguement is that some groups (using FCI system) would be so small to not warrant it, or that it's simply more for each club to offer extra trophies etc....I've seen Utility groups at 35 dogs or Non Sporting less than two dozen....it exists already in some areas or at some times of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Working group is predominantly herding breeds but it was the large and physically active that made me think Working or Utility being a game hunting breed (but not a gundog). UK, USA and Canada all have Danes in the Working group. Just my thinking behind it. Like I said, everyone has different ideas about where their breeds belong. If our Working group was like the FCI one I would agree. But as I said earlier, our Working is most countries' Herding/Pastoral so I would think that the GD would be out of place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zensu Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I agree with Bisart in geneeral about group three.. the only breed that i sometimes question is American Cockers - i think they could easily be put in group 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Rottis and Bernese Mountain Dogs could easily move to group 5, they are both herding dogs and the ones I've seen in action do a fine job of it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I think it could work quite nicely. It would be great for me as a spectator I have a feeling the judging might not work so well, and we might end up with a generic spitz type dog covering all the breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) ...and of course the Schnauzer is a terrier .... No - Schnauzers are not terriers. Though they should be grouped with Pinschers if we are looking at historical development. Not sure why they were split up when group 6 and 7 were split here. While the split of LGD between groups 5 and 6 doesn't seem logical (and didn't to me either until it was actually pointed out to me recently) they are actually split more or less between the two groups in line with the FCI split between mountain type dogs (which we put in our group 6 and are in FCI group 2 along with Pinscer/Schnauzer type and Mollossoid type) and dogs from lower regions (in our group 5 and FCI group 1 which is sheep and cattle dogs). Edited August 19, 2011 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) I voted no but purely on numbers. I'd love to see the Spitz together instead of scattered like they are. And I'd love to have a Sighthound group instead of the scent/sight mix we have. But Australia just doesn't have the numbers to justify those changes. Our groups are small enough sometimes as it is! And edit to add I'm still LMAO at Kinsella's Rocky and Bullwinkle reference!! Edited August 19, 2011 by Alyosha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 ...and of course the Schnauzer is a terrier .... No - Schnauzers are not terriers. Though they should be grouped with Pinschers if we are looking at historical development. Not sure why they were split up when group 6 and 7 were split here. While the split of LGD between groups 5 and 6 doesn't seem logical (and didn't to me either until it was actually pointed out to me recently) they are actually split more or less between the two groups in line with the FCI split between mountain type dogs (which we put in our group 6 and are in FCI group 2 along with Pinscer/Schnauzer type and Mollossoid type) and dogs from lower regions (in our group 5 and FCI group 1 which is sheep and cattle dogs). There is a growing movement atm to get the FCI grp2 split - as it is a very odd group with schnauzers/pinchers in the same group as the mollosers and it is a huge group (breeds like schnauzers are split by colour so instead of just the 3 sizes, there are 8 representatives in the group ring. I think if you look at any countries system for grouping dogs, there are some that stand out as being in the wrong place - but surely they can be moved if the breed clubs request it? I know the Giant Schnauzer (in UK) was moved from Utility to working group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PomsNZ Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I have poms... And i didnt vote.... Mainly cos I live in NZ so it wouldnt REALLY affect us, BUT Im not sure a spitz group is the way to go... Poms are in the toy ring, as they were bred for companions, lap dogs, although they were used to herd sheep, when they were larger poms, for over 100 years they have been bred for companions. Not sure what a sibe would do if a pom got off its lead and took off... least in the toy ring the other dogs are generally similar size. But would be interesting, however I will make do with going to spitz shows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I didn't vote but think it would be good for Spitz to have their own ring, it is so hard to beat a cute fluffy baby spitz with a short hairded baby Leanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 The schnauzer exhibitors had a vote on where they belong. Those with 2 or 3 of the sizes didn't want them split as it was in the "too hard" basket. Most of us Mini exhibitors did vote to be moved to the Terrier ring because in the scheme of things we fit in better size wise & to be honest being in a group with stripped coats meant we had judges more offay with correct coats . The Std & Giant where if voted to go to the working group. I would have been happy with Minis in the terrier grp As far as yanks go some UK folk wanted them shifted to the toy ring ,good knows why they are very much a working spaniel . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 I didn't vote but think it would be good for Spitz to have their own ring, it is so hard to beat a cute fluffy baby spitz with a short hairded baby Leanne Oooh I don't know about that. My young Samoyeds biggest competition has come from the cutest little French Bulldog puppy. I always worry when I see him in sweeps or the in show line up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskedaway Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Not sure what a sibe would do if a pom got off its lead and took off... least in the toy ring the other dogs are generally similar size. But would be interesting, however I will make do with going to spitz shows Just knowing my Sibe... it wouldn't be pretty and I'd have an awfully hard time controlling her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now