RiverStar-Aura Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) I've just finished watching the Crufts DVDs I bought and I've noticed that a lot of smaller dog handlers pick their dog up off the judging table by their tail and a hand under the chin/between the front legs. Wouldn't this hurt the dog? I'm guessing not since a lot of handlers do it but I just found it an odd way to pick the dogs up Edited April 6, 2012 by RiverStar-Aura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I was told by someone who owns a terrier ( so not sure if its true) but she told me they were bred to have stong tails so that owners could use the tail to pull them out of burrows etc. Wonder if that's true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Poor dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Traditionally most of the terriers tails were used to pull them out of the burrows The Wire Fox Terrier is a breed of dog, one of many terrier breeds. ... bred to chase foxes into their burrows underground, and their short, strong, usually docked, tails were used as handles by the hunter to pull them back out The Glen of Imaal - The Glen of Imaal Terrier is more of a working terrier than a fashionable show dog. One of its original jobs was to dig into burrows to root out nuisance badgers - its weight and strength matching the badger's, and its powerful tail acting as a handle for being pulled from the hole, if necessary. Scottish terrier: They had to have strong tails so that the hunters could pull them out of a burrow if needed. The West Highland White Terrier, or Westie, is a small breed of dog that was first developed to hunt rats in underground burrows. ... that the dog can be pulled from a hole by the base of its tail without being injured. I reckon that if the dog was uncomfortable with it they would soon let us know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Yeah....I wouldn't be picking any animal up by it's tail. Pulling it out of a burrow or something to keep it from danger is one thing, but otherwise...no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 trust me, no peeved off terrier will take handling like that if it felt it ... the handler would be feeling the little dogs wrath very quickly. Most terriers were bred for that and it can be a way of proving the fact the dog has that nice strong tail too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 If the weight of the dog is being taken by the hand under the chest and the hand on the tail is used only to steady the dog only, it wouldn't hurt the dog. If one hand is under the dog's chin, the entire weight of the dog is being held by its spine. That isn't comfortable or good for a dog. The spine is not designed to take that weight, even if it is thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Just stand outside the Toy ring and you will see this a lot. Some will slide their hand/arm under the dogs chest and the other hand gently at the base of the tail, no worries. But others will pick the dog up under the chin and tail, I would like to see them asked to leave the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I've often seen Lhasas and Shitzu's adjusted by holding the head and tail when on the table and stacked on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 I guess it makes sense that the terriers would be use to it. I can't believe they all just hung there rigid as though they were standing. If I did that to Kirah her little legs would be flailing everywhere :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I've often seen Lhasas and Shitzu's adjusted by holding the head and tail when on the table and stacked on the ground. This is called "topping and tailing" and is quite common in many breeds. Many, possibly most, American Cocker handlers do it. Also, if you watch many breeds, their handlers will use their tails to make them "pull into" a stack and then maintain tail pressure to encourage them to lean into their fronts to give the illusion of a good topline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austerra Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 If you think about the length that most terrier breeds were docked traditionally, they were about a hands width in length. perfect to grab. But then some breeds like a dobe were docked shorter, if on attack they couldn't be readily grabbed by the tail and thrown off balance, hence possibly losing the impetus of their attack. You do see a number of terrier showies lift their dogs onto the table in the manner you are referring to, with some breeds it is done so the "hairdo" is not messed up before the judge views them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I know you're only asking a genuine question but it makes me a bit cross. People have been lifting dogs off tables at dog shows like this for probably 100+ years. Why would you believe people would continue to do it if it hurts or is any way bad for the dog? If it was something cruel/unkind/bad for the dog it WOULD have been stopped by peer pressure long ago. The majority of show people are genuine dog people who are concerned about the welfare of their dogs - even if some are only concerned that the dog isn't hurt so it can win the next show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I've often seen Lhasas and Shitzu's adjusted by holding the head and tail when on the table and stacked on the ground. This is called "topping and tailing" and is quite common in many breeds. Many, possibly most, American Cocker handlers do it. Also, if you watch many breeds, their handlers will use their tails to make them "pull into" a stack and then maintain tail pressure to encourage them to lean into their fronts to give the illusion of a good topline. Thanks ellz - none of the dogs ever looked distressed or even bothered by it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) trust me, no peeved off terrier will take handling like that if it felt it ... the handler would be feeling the little dogs wrath very quickly. Most terriers were bred for that and it can be a way of proving the fact the dog has that nice strong tail too. As a Dog Exhibitor I too cringe when I see it but I do believe that the terriers certainly would let the handler know if this were hurting them at all, as Nekbet says. It just doesn't look very comfortable and you certainly would not see a Peke or Cav being handled like that, they just aren't designed that way. The only not officially a terrier breed I can think of that I've seen handled this way is the Maltese, no, not a terrier but similar in structure. Now I'm wondering if a Havanese or Lhaso handler does this???? On a personal level I don't think not ruffling the coat justifies picking any dog up in this way myself. I know it's been done for a long time, doesn't hurt the dog etc. I just don't see myself ever picking a dog up in this way. Edited April 7, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I know you're only asking a genuine question but it makes me a bit cross. People have been lifting dogs off tables at dog shows like this for probably 100+ years. Why would you believe people would continue to do it if it hurts or is any way bad for the dog? If it was something cruel/unkind/bad for the dog it WOULD have been stopped by peer pressure long ago. The majority of show people are genuine dog people who are concerned about the welfare of their dogs - even if some are only concerned that the dog isn't hurt so it can win the next show! People do it because other people do it, and because in some breeds a dog would be disadvantaged by having it's coat messed up from underneath. And as long as there are people that tell them that it's ok to lift a dog that way, there will be people that think it's ok to do. Peer pressure works in negative ways as well as positive. Dogs are prone to all of the usual spinal injuries and conditions that humans and other animals are. There is nothing I can find to suggest that their spines can take stresses like this. The type of injury that might result might be back pain that isn't going to be immediately obvious to its owner. A dog that is regularly held in this way is probably going to learn very quickly that it is more comfortable to tolerate the handling than to try to struggle against it Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Unless somebody can show evidence that proves a dog's back is has the mechanical abilities to be supported between chin and tail only, we should probably assume that it is uncomfortable for the dog, as it would be for most vertebrates. It's not really acceptable to do something like this just because everyone else does it. No need to get cross at anyone. The OP is genuine, and if there is evidence that shows a dog's spine is designed for that type of stress load, it would be good if you could share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Just quicky skimmed the Crufts terrier group judging to see when this happens, only saw 2 people do it - with the Scottish Terrier and Sealyham terrier. Saw a few others support neck and under bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I know you're only asking a genuine question but it makes me a bit cross. People have been lifting dogs off tables at dog shows like this for probably 100+ years. Why would you believe people would continue to do it if it hurts or is any way bad for the dog? If it was something cruel/unkind/bad for the dog it WOULD have been stopped by peer pressure long ago. The majority of show people are genuine dog people who are concerned about the welfare of their dogs - even if some are only concerned that the dog isn't hurt so it can win the next show! People do it because other people do it, and because in some breeds a dog would be disadvantaged by having it's coat messed up from underneath. And as long as there are people that tell them that it's ok to lift a dog that way, there will be people that think it's ok to do. Peer pressure works in negative ways as well as positive. Dogs are prone to all of the usual spinal injuries and conditions that humans and other animals are. There is nothing I can find to suggest that their spines can take stresses like this. The type of injury that might result might be back pain that isn't going to be immediately obvious to its owner. A dog that is regularly held in this way is probably going to learn very quickly that it is more comfortable to tolerate the handling than to try to struggle against it Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Unless somebody can show evidence that proves a dog's back is has the mechanical abilities to be supported between chin and tail only, we should probably assume that it is uncomfortable for the dog, as it would be for most vertebrates. It's not really acceptable to do something like this just because everyone else does it. No need to get cross at anyone. The OP is genuine, and if there is evidence that shows a dog's spine is designed for that type of stress load, it would be good if you could share it. I never said it may not be uncomfortable for the dog my statement was that it wasn't BAD for the dog. We do lots of things every day to ourselves/kids/dogs/cats/horses/rats/goldfish which all may well be uncomfortable but which aren't actively doing harm. And "ruffling the coat" would hardly be an issue in the Smooth Fox Terrier for example, to say nothing of the terrier breeds which were lifted like this LONG before the insane floor-length coat on a earth dog became vogue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 I know you're only asking a genuine question but it makes me a bit cross. People have been lifting dogs off tables at dog shows like this for probably 100+ years. Why would you believe people would continue to do it if it hurts or is any way bad for the dog? If it was something cruel/unkind/bad for the dog it WOULD have been stopped by peer pressure long ago. The majority of show people are genuine dog people who are concerned about the welfare of their dogs - even if some are only concerned that the dog isn't hurt so it can win the next show! I don't understand how my question could "make you cross". I only asked because I've never seen dog shows before so excuse me for my ignorance. I didn't know people have been picking dogs up like this as I've never been exposed to it before. My dogs are pets so I guess it's my fault I'm naive about the show world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakbelgian Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 You see it very often in Toy grp & with the some SHih Tzu & Lhasa Apso exh. Dogs may be used to it as you don't see them squirm or protest at how they are picked up. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now