Must Ask Questions When Buying A Puppy

[Online Pets]

We get a lot of emails from people asking us what questions they need to ask when they are buying a puppy. (note: we dont actually sell puppies in our shop...)

So im compiling a list of questions that should be asked whether buying from a registered breeder, a pet shop, or worse, a byb. I figured i would consult the DOL community and see what we came up with?

So, what are the must ask questions and why???

[Aussienot]

Question: What health checks have been completed on the stud and the bitch, and can I see the results?

[puglvr]

What is your prefix and your VCA/ANKC membership number? Then you can check they are genuine.

[oakway]

Question: What health checks have been completed on the stud and the bitch, and can I see the results?

Hang on a minute what about the dogs that don't have any health checks or DNA testing available at this stage of time.

I was asked for a hip dysplasia certificate because the the people had been told to ask for one.

There was no way I could convince these purchasers that that there were none done for my breed.

Where did they get this advise, from people on a dog list. :)

Please advise to ask for health, DNA check where it is advisable for that breed.

Don't forget that the more test's where applicable, on each generation, the greater the percentage of puppies MAY be clear by parentage over a period of time.

[Remarkabull]

Why is a BYB worse than a pet shop? I think a pet shop is by far worse than BYB. At least you can see where the pup has been raised, what the parents are like and the people who raised them.

I would want to be able to meet the parents (both preferably but at least the mother), see what they are like physically and temperament wise.

Definitely ask for health checks etc, and be able to actually see proof of the results.

Do research on the breed. Don't just take one persons word/opinion on a breed, talk to as many people as you can about them.

[Alyosha]

Question: What health checks have been completed on the stud and the bitch, and can I see the results?

Hang on a minute what about the dogs that don't have any health checks or DNA testing available at this stage of time.

I was asked for a hip dysplasia certificate because the the people had been told to ask for one.

There was no way I could convince these purchasers that that there were none done for my breed.

Where did they get this advise, from people on a dog list. :)

Please advise to ask for health, DNA check where it is advisable for that breed.

Don't forget that the more test's where applicable, on each generation, the greater the percentage of puppies MAY be clear by parentage over a period of time.

Thankyou! Some breeds don't have a demonstrated need for health testing.

[Alkhe]

What about 'can I meet the mother?' If someone's breeding in dodgy conditions or those that they're not comfortable showing you, there may be a problem.

In some situations it may not be possible, but it at least opens up the conversation. Which in my opinion is very important, you want to feel comfortable with someone.

[minxy]

Question: What health checks have been completed on the stud and the bitch, and can I see the results?

Hang on a minute what about the dogs that don't have any health checks or DNA testing available at this stage of time.

I was asked for a hip dysplasia certificate because the the people had been told to ask for one.

There was no way I could convince these purchasers that that there were none done for my breed.

Where did they get this advise, from people on a dog list. :)

Please advise to ask for health, DNA check where it is advisable for that breed.

Don't forget that the more test's where applicable, on each generation, the greater the percentage of puppies MAY be clear by parentage over a period of time.

Thankyou! Some breeds don't have a demonstrated need for health testing.

What Aussienot said sounded like pretty good wording to me. They didn't say "Do you hip score?" etc. It was general, so it works for any breed really. Even if there aren't any specific tests for that breed, the breeder should at least be able to say that their puppies are all vet checked before going to their new homes, or something to that effect.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

On the health question, I think a better question is "what are the diseases common in this breed, and how have you worked to avoid them in your breeding program?".

I also have a breed that doesn't have genetic tests, and it is usually the breed dragged out (including by Jemima Harrison) as the example of a "healthy breed" but we do have generally agreed protocols all the same. They are to get the heart checked prior to breeding as heart issues are common, to get the thyroid checked as autoimmune issues can be an issue and thyroid problems can point to an autoimmune susceptibility, and to use older healthy breeding animals - 3-7 for bitches, 5-10 for dogs. The older breeding animals helps cut down the risk for both autoimmune and cancer. Also, responsible people will avoid doubling up where known issues have occurred. Note I said cut down the risk, as there is no such thing as a guarantee that nothing will pop up.

Based on what I read on DOL, the common problems are a health problem cropping up where the breeder and buyer disagree, a breeding proposal where the breeder and buyer disagree, a sale contract where the breeder and buyer disagree and finally, mismatched expectations about the post sale relationship. With the latter I often see breeders lamenting puppy buyers who don't keep in touch and puppy buyers lamenting breeders who just don't care. Find someone before the sale who wants the same things you do (whether no involvement at all, or a lifetime connection)

So the other questions I would ask are:

"What are your terms of sale, do you sell your pups on a contract?

"If my vet diagnoses a genetic or congenital problem with my puppy, what is your policy?"

"What is your policy on desexing/breeding?"

"What level of involvement do you ask for after the sale?"

[minimax]

We get a lot of emails from people asking us what questions they need to ask when they are buying a puppy. (note: we dont actually sell puppies in our shop...)

So im compiling a list of questions that should be asked whether buying from a registered breeder, a pet shop, or worse, a byb. I figured i would consult the DOL community and see what we came up with?

So, what are the must ask questions and why???

Interesting that you think BYB is "worse" than buying from a pet shop, considering that's where most pet shops get their stock from

Health checks is a valid question. Surely even dogs without HD or known genetic issues have vet checks before breeding etc?

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Health checks is a valid question. Surely even dogs without HD or known genetic issues have vet checks before breeding etc?

Yep. Apart from anything else, there is the question of the bitch's well being. I think a vet check is a wise idea not just for the future health of the pups, but to ensure that the planned breeding is appropriate for the bitch.

[Sandra777]

Why did you do this mating and what factors did you consider when deciding on the stud dog that was used.

We also need a thread on what are the "correct" answers to these questions :laugh:

Edited May 3, 2012 by Sandra777

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Why did you do this mating and what factors did you consider when deciding on the stud dog that was used.

We also need a thread on what are the "correct" answers to these questions :laugh:

Ha, like DOLers would agree on that. Tho' the other reason I haven't provided "correct" answers to puppy buyer questions in the past is that we don't want to give credible sounding scripts to people who aren't a good idea.

[oakway]

Health checks is a valid question. Surely even dogs without HD or known genetic issues have vet checks before breeding etc?

Yep. Apart from anything else, there is the question of the bitch's well being. I think a vet check is a wise idea not just for the future health of the pups, but to ensure that the planned breeding is appropriate for the bitch.

No, why would you take a healty dog to the vet.

I have a 7 year old bitch here and the only time she has seen a vet was for her baby puppy vaccination.

She is a Champion and has produced two litters.

Two pups kept from her fist litter for showing are both Grand Champions and her second litter keepers are on the way to their titles.

Her next trip to the vet will be for a spey.

Healthy dogs here don't go to vets. :)

Edited May 3, 2012 by oakway

[SkySoaringMagpie]

No, why would you take a healty dog to the vet.

I have a 7 year old bitch here and the only time she has seen a vet was for her baby puppy vaccination.

She is a Champion and has produced two litters.

Two pups kept from her fist litter for showing are both Grand Champions and her second litter keepers are on the way to their titles.

Her next trip to the vet will be for a spey.

Healthy dogs here don't go to vets. :)

In my breed there are two insidious diseases that can test clear early in life and appear later. Salukis are also known to be incredibly stoic, and the first you know there is something seriously wrong is often when the dog is dead, or just about to die. So I don't assume and I take my girl to the vet to get the all clear. Vets are not infallible, but more than once in my life the combination of a vet result in an apparently healthy dog and advice from experienced breeders has decided me against pursuing a particular breeding plan. There are no guarantees, but I like to improve the odds as much as I can.

[Angeluca]

This topic is going to get very opinionated.

A mention on the vet check topic, there are many reasons a healthy dog goes to a vet.

Hip/elbow scores, Vaccinations I would think a dog whom is shown or competed regularly would/should have vacs if only for kennel cough , dental check, ultra sound to confirm preg. I would think that the healthiest brood bitch has the occasional well being check (I could be wrong). I don't think no dog is healthy 100% of the time.

to the original topic= A record of worming and vac on puppies, Information on the breed including any health concern, Info on training and socializing puppies and the importance of it. BSL laws if relevant (bully breeds ect this also includes why crossing runs the risk of a seized dog and importance of papers in these particular breeds) And a detailed list on diet and information/instructions if planning on changing the diet. I believe history (papers, health checks) on parents is very important as well.

I'm not a experience Breeder, so I will watch this topic very close.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Angeluca

[Red Fox]

At the very least:

*Breed specific health tests (and results). The buyer needs to research the breed to find out exactly what these are. In cross breeds this includes relevant tests for BOTH parent breeds. Cross breeding will not cancel out genetic health problems. A 'vet check' does not screen for possible genetic issues!

*Worming and vaccination schedules (again, buyer needs to be aware of how often pups need to be wormed and vacc protocols)

*Socialisation of pups

*What type of dogs the breeder expects this litter to produce and what kind of homes they will be suited to.

*Temperament of parents - good with kids, good with other animals, confident and outgoing or reserved with strangers, laid back and easy going or high drive and energetic.

*Papers - will the pups be registered? If so, with whom? - buyer needs to make sure that the pup will be registered with a legitimate body (ie ANKC) and appropriate papers provided.

Followed by:

*Meet the parents (at the very minimum meet the mother)

*Assess the environment - is it clean? Do the dogs appear to be well kept?

*Assess temperament of parents - Stable, friendly, approachable? Skittish, aggressive, etc?

*Assess the pups - are they alert, playful and friendly? Or are the fearful, snappy or lethargic?

*Discuss contracts and/or restrictions the breeder may place on their pups

*Health guarantees? What is covered, will the breeder refund or replace if the pup suffers from a genetic condition.

[oakway]

This topic is going to get very opinionated.

A mention on the vet check topic, there are many reasons a healthy dog goes to a vet.

Hip/elbow scores, Vaccinations I would think a dog whom is shown or competed regularly would/should have vacs if only for kennel cough , dental check, ultra sound to confirm preg. I would think that the healthiest brood bitch has the occasional well being check (I could be wrong). I don't think no dog is healthy 100% of the time.

to the original topic= A record of worming and vac on puppies, Information on the breed including any health concern, Info on training and socializing puppies and the importance of it. BSL laws if relevant (bully breeds ect this also includes why crossing runs the risk of a seized dog and importance of papers in these particular breeds) And a detailed list on diet and information/instructions if planning on changing the diet. I believe history (papers, health checks) on parents is very important as well.

I'm not a experience Breeder, so I will watch this topic very close.

What some of us are trying to say is that we have some breeds that don't have hip, elbow, heart etc., health issues.

Yet we have people asking us for health certificates because they were on a dog list and they said to ask for one.

I believe this is something we need to thrash out. You can't say carte blanche ask for health certificates where none are available some breeds.

You mentioned dental check, well here is MY answer, somebody else may use a vet but most breeders will tell you open the dog mouth and have a look if its teeth are dirty give it a bone to clean them. Mine get a chicken frame every second night and don't have dirty teeth to start with.

Vaccinations, well we all know about over vaccination these days don't we.

Not only that but you can buy killed vaccine and administer it yourself.

Kennel cough, well most of our dogs are not vaccinated for it because their are so many strains of it and if the dog are shown on a regular basis they tend to build up their own immunity.

Most dog are treated for fleas and worms monthly including heart worm. No need for a vet as most of us purchase it off the internet at a cheaper price.

Bitches in season here are mated locally or sent by air interstate. Mine don't go to vets, for ultrasounds.

I just wait and see what happens and personally why would I want to take a perfectly healthy bitch to where sick dogs are.

Now I am not having a go at anybody. To each their own. But in some breeds you can't ask for what doesn't happen.

Lets face it, most people that come to me for a puppy only want to take home a happy healthy puppy and I have never had a buyer ask what were the reasons why I mated the bitch. If they did my simple answer would be in the hope of getting a better one.

Cheers all.

[Jed]

Angeluca

A mention on the vet check topic, there are many reasons a healthy dog goes to a vet.

Hip/elbow scores, Vaccinations I would think a dog whom is shown or competed regularly would/should have vacs if only for kennel cough , dental check, ultra sound to confirm preg. I would think that the healthiest brood bitch has the occasional well being check (I could be wrong). I don't think no dog is healthy 100% of the time.

Experienced owners/exhibitors/breeders can tell whether the bitch is healthy or not. Ditto for a dental, they know whether the dogs need a dental or not. AVA approved vacs are now 3 yearly.

My dogs are healthy 100% of the time. They may become less healthy over 10 years. I would never never contemplate breeding a dog or a bitch which was not in excellent health and stayed in excellent health.

If I took one of my bitches to the vet for a "checkup" he would laugh me out of the surgery. I take them if I think something is amiss, and we do tests, but that is the exception, rather than the rule.

The point of breeding is NOT to use dogs which are always at the vets. And Hip and elbow scores on breeds where this is required should be done well before they are mated.

And I don't do ultrasounds because they are often wrong. I can palpate the bitch and generally get the numbers of pups correct and the way they are lieing. And I need a rough idea because I need to know whether the bitch has whelped all the pups when the time comes.

If I thought she was having 6, and she whelps 4, and I think I can feel 2, we are off to the vet for oxytocin, or a caesar. I'd rather keep the ultra sound $$ and use it when it might be really needed. And really, what is the point of knowing early? You can hardly squish a few more in if she is only showing one or two.

I think in Vic, breeders are supposed to take the new born litter and dam to the vet for a check. I probably know as much as the vet about whether the pups and dam are healthy. There is no way I am upsetting the pups and mother, and taking them into a hostile and perhaps dangerous environment to keep some dodger from the Government happy. If I lived in Vic I would not breed. Too difficult

Buyers need to be careful about what they ask for. I had someone contact me wanting a brown and white or black and white king charles cavalier. She wanted to know had the pup been tested for MVD, SM, EFD and CC. Only 4 breeders in Aus are testing for SM as far as I know, and I am not one of them. I have neve seen EFD or CC, and I hope I never shall.

With 4 generations of my own breeding, I don't think I am going to see EFD or CC. I couldn't be bothered educating someone about which tests were relevant, and which aren't, nor could I be bothered educating her about colours, so I sent her to one of the breeders who MRIs for SM. They don't have any pups of course. And they might pass her along too.

So buyers should do their basic research before they enquire.

When I am contacted, I send back a standard email, saying what is available, stating what will happen pre-sale, what the pups have had done, and will have done , and some basic information about the pups and the parents and the price. ie - vaccinated, microchipped, registered with the CC,

It is then up to the buyer contact me if they are still interested. And I don't care what they say in their first email - as long as they aren't rude. All breeders have different requirements. I don't want to read 20 pages, I would like to know where they live, whethr they own or have owned the breed before. Maybe something about the family.

Problem is there are so many sites advising them what to say, that a lot of them disguise the truth because they think they wont get a pup. ie - have little kids. Some breeders wont sell to people with little kids. Buyers are better to tell the truth and find someone who will co operate with them

It is quite obvious that some are retyping something they have read which sounds good.

I treat all enquiries the same. Some are lookers, some are other breeders wanting to know. If they indicate they are still interested after the first email, I send photos, and keep in contact. Talking to them all the while, and by the time the pups are ready to leave, I have enough buyers.

Anyway, I digress, sorry. :)

Edited May 3, 2012 by Jed

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Experienced owners/exhibitors/breeders can tell whether the bitch is healthy or not.

So, this means you do the heart testing yourself - for cardiac dysrhythmia and for a failing heart? I've been shown how to do the latter so could probably disqualify dogs from my breeding program if I had to, but I still prefer to have a bit of paper from someone with a degree from a veterinary school to qualify dogs. If that makes me inexperienced, oh well.