Nadsi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I found this on Facebook: http://www.presstelegram.com/opinions/ci_21037216/comment-dog-crates-are-cruel-and-dogs-hate It was one of the more absurd things I've read about dogs and crate training. It's written by a Senior Director of PETA (of course). The article mentions that it causes dogs psychological damage; well, maybe if the dog is being crated 18 hours a day like the article claims, but a responsible owner wouldn't be crating their animal every day for 18 hours a day; the problem is the owner, not the tool. Dog crates are cruel and dogs hate them: "What if, at your local pet-supply store, you could purchase a dog-training tool that would make your dog weaker, klutzier and less intelligent? And what if this tool increased your dog's frustration and fearfulness about the world and made him or her less likely to bond with you? Would you buy it? Of course not! Yet, millions of these "tools" are sold every year to unsuspecting dog lovers who want the absolute best for their dogs. The tool is a "crate," which is just a euphemism for a cage. In fact, dog crates are even smaller than most cages that are used to house dogs in laboratories. In their new book "Dogs Hate Crates: How Abusive Crate Training Hurts Dogs, Families & Society," Ray and Emma Lincoln discuss in detail the detrimental effects of crating on dogs' well-being. They explain how the crating trend got started, what continues to fuel it, why it's so harmful and what the alternatives to crating are. The authors are experienced dog trainers and behavior specialists who found that they were spending much of their training time trying to undo psychological and behavioral symptoms caused by crating. Shockingly, it is now commonplace for people who use crates to keep their dogs in them for upwards of 18 hours per day, according to the authors: nine hours while the owner is at work (including a commute), another eight hours at night, any hours during which no one is home in the evening and on the weekend and any time that company comes over or the dog is simply "underfoot." Pro-crate advocates will say, "Yes, but a crate is just like a cozy den." But dogs, wolves and other wild canids are not true "den animals." Wolves use a den for only eight weeks, right after their pups are born. Afterward, the den is abandoned. And since dens don't come with a locked door, there is no true comparison between crates and dens. Others will say, "But my dog loves his crate!" This statement defies logic. No animal on Earth "loves" to be caged. However, dogs do love people and will tolerate almost anything that their guardians force them to endure. According to some experts, dogs who appear to "love" their crate because they keep running back to it are often really exhibiting a lack of self-confidence or even fearfulness toward the outside world brought on by the extreme confinement and isolation of a crate. In truth, crating is an inadequate substitute for comprehensive dog training used by trainers who lack competence and wish to increase their client base rather than taking the time needed to solve individual dog problems. At best, crating only postpones the day when real training will have to take place because dogs simply can't learn how to interact with the world while in isolation. At worst, crating makes behavior training, including house training, more difficult, often creating serious and sometimes even dangerous behavior problems. But trainers aren't the only ones who profit from crates. There is a lot of money to be made from crates in the dog industry, not just from the crates themselves, but also from all the peripheral industries, such as products and services meant to cure behavior problems as well as medications and supplements for dogs who have not learned to cope with the world because of crating. If crating were widely denounced, many dog-based industries would shrink. No wonder so many dog-related professionals have jumped on the crating bandwagon. Crating is a cruel practice that has tormented and harmed millions of dogs and brought unhappiness, guilt, stress and confusion to millions of people who simply want what's best for their canine companions. Dogs - and their guardians - deserve better." Karen Porreca is a senior director of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, 501 Front Street, Norfolk, Va. 23510; www.PETA.org. Information about PETA's funding may be found at www.peta.org/about/numbers.asp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Well I don't use crates in the manner they describe (i.e. 18 hours a day)... my dogs love their crates as they usually end up at show! I have had 4 Chi's try to cram inside a PP20 (and they fit too! lol) they love it that much! I note that is article does not state a lot of hard facts or research / statistics though - I wonder if the book will be more of the same dribble! The only sad thing is some people will swallow it hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) This is what happens when people with a closed mind try to foister their ignorance on those who know better. They would have done better to ask people for their experience and then taking a position after presenting both sides of the argument. Edited July 10, 2012 by Tralee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussienot Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 "Karen Porreca is a senior director of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" Enuf said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadsi Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 "Karen Porreca is a senior director of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" Enuf said. As soon as I saw that I was like "No one with full control of their mental faculties would consider publishing such a one-sided article, this is the worst piece of journalism I ever-- oh, riiiiight. PETA. Got it." I mean, what rubbish. My dogs spend about 8-9 hours a day in their crates; at night for sleeping, and maybe if they need to calm down a little after play or when guests have just walked through the door. If they actually need to be confined somewhere while they're awake, they go to the back yard or my back deck which can be gated off (and is about 4x5m). It makes me sad that this stuff gets published. It's so biased, I'm scared that there'll be a wave of anti-crate madness going through the media; there probably won't be, because dog training tools are not high up there on the news value register, but it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrirose Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Extremist much? I have trouble listening/reading any literature which refuses to look at more than one angle. My dogs love their crates, they have the doors open (unless I'm out or its bedtime) and they will voluntarily sleep in their crates, come out for a stretch, lie in front of the heater for 30 mins or so and then back in their crates. If we get up they hop out straight away incase something exciting is about to happen. So many "serious and dangerous behavioural problems" there. NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Isn't Peta the one that wants all animals to live in the wild and let predators do what comes naturally - cos that won't be traumatic or cruel to the prey or the starving predators at all... This is the USA equivalent to RSPCA take on Crates... http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 That extremist but this may be aimed at a certain culture who seem to crate their dogs every day of the week and every night of the week. There's quite a few of them out there. But it's PETA so you know ALL crates are bad and should be melted into boats to save the whales... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 What a load of piffle Interestingly my Whippet is 12 days into her 14 day crate period after orthopaedic surgery. While I am quite sure she would prefer to be leaping on the lounge, she happily comes out for her toilet break and then just as happily goes straight back in. Must tell her she is supposed to hate it. I would never crate a dog all day then all night that is extreme but I guess just coz some do, we all do. What morons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 "Karen Porreca is a senior director of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" Enuf said. And she's in Virginia . . . don't blame California. (Sure, we've got more than our quota of loonies . . . but this one doesn't belong to us) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadsi Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 "Karen Porreca is a senior director of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" Enuf said. And she's in Virginia . . . don't blame California. (Sure, we've got more than our quota of loonies . . . but this one doesn't belong to us) :D I didn't mean to highlight or generalise behaviour from Cali, just that the article was published there, for a bit of context :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan B Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) I was so annoyed with the poster that PETA were circulating, and the ignorant comments that followed, I wrote an article on our Rescue website: here. Edited July 11, 2012 by Plan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) That extremist but this may be aimed at a certain culture who seem to crate their dogs every day of the week and every night of the week. There's quite a few of them out there. But it's PETA so you know ALL crates are bad and should be melted into boats to save the whales... It's another ill informed PETA article. Aiming to outrage those that don't understand. PETA aren't interested in saving whales though, they're more concerned with killing dogs and stopping pet ownership. Edited July 12, 2012 by Sabbath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I did read when browsing through an American dog forum that their dogs do spend quite a deal of time crated as pets. Like when owners are at work etc. Coming out only for toileting and excercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I would find it strange to lock a dog in a crate while I was at work - for up to 8 hours or so. What if there was a fire - the poor dog wouldn't stand a chance. But I wonder for those who don't crate train at all how do these dogs get on when they have to be crated at the vets or groomers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think the way most people use crates is great - dog sleeps in crate and may sleep in it during the day for a hour or so in some circumstances. In my house, those circumstances may include when small kids come over, when we are having a BBQ and there are lots of people coming and going, or at other times when I don't want to put the dogs outside but can't watch them. Usually bad weather. Used in this way, a crate is very good for the dog, and helps with its training and safety. I am a big fan. But lots of apartment dwellers use the crate in the way the article describes, to protect their things and because there is no garden. In those circumstances there may well be some ill effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I would find it strange to lock a dog in a crate while I was at work - for up to 8 hours or so. What if there was a fire - the poor dog wouldn't stand a chance. But I wonder for those who don't crate train at all how do these dogs get on when they have to be crated at the vets or groomers? I agree, but a dog would be in the same danger uncrated indoors if there was a fire. They need a safe, warm place to be when you can't supervise them. I like puppy pens to put the young one in when I'm out for an evening or such. You are so right, you can't keep a convalencent dog sedated for more than a few days. Crate training has been a blessing for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I regularly use crates at night for new foster dogs, until they are integrated and used to the house etc. Recently I had to crate one of my longer term fosters because he kept going out in the night and barking at something. I started crating him for the night for a week or so and then gave him a chance to see if he'd improved. Whilst he hasn't been out barking in the night again, he has chosen to take himself back into the crate at night (I don't shut the door), he goes off to bed quite early in the evening and you can't get him out of it!! I don't believe in crating dogs all day and all night, that is simply cruel. When I try and tell new foster carers about using crates they are sometimes horrified at first but often find it is handy. They are actually very useful when not misused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) I would find it strange to lock a dog in a crate while I was at work - for up to 8 hours or so. What if there was a fire - the poor dog wouldn't stand a chance. But I wonder for those who don't crate train at all how do these dogs get on when they have to be crated at the vets or groomers? I never crate trained Lucy and this is something that pops into my mind. The groomer thing I have sorted as my groomers don't crate the dogs and I only ever book her in when I can pick her up immediately when she's done anyway. The vet thing could be a concern however she's only been crated once at the vets to be speyed and she was grogged out of her mind and it didn't bother her. I presume if she ever has to be crated at the vets she will be very unwell and wont be in any state to be arguing about it. I think she'd take to a crate actually as her favourite hidey hole is under my bed. Edited July 21, 2012 by donatella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I would find it strange to lock a dog in a crate while I was at work - for up to 8 hours or so. What if there was a fire - the poor dog wouldn't stand a chance. But I wonder for those who don't crate train at all how do these dogs get on when they have to be crated at the vets or groomers? I never crate trained Lucy and this is something that pops into my mind. The groomer thing I have sorted as my groomers don't crate the dogs and I only ever book her in when I can pick her up immediately when she's done anyway. The vet thing could be a concern however she's only been crated once at the vets to be speyed and she was grogged out of her mind and it didn't bother her. I presume if she ever has to be crated at the vets she will be very unwell and wont be in any state to be arguing about it. I think she'd take to a crate actually as her favourite hidey hole is under my bed. Its not so much at the vets, but if she needs to be crated following an operation or injury. Lots of little dogs have patella problems and I believe the post op recovery is something like 6 weeks crate rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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