ziggyboy Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I'm in the process of adopting a puppy from an interstate breeder. In fact I have already paid a deposit weeks ago and now just waiting for the big day. I received what I thought was an awkward email form the breeder and would like your opinion about whether my actions indeed sounds worrying to a breeder. I refuse to mention the breeder or any hints as to what breed of dog it is or even the state she's from. Please understand that it is not my intention to bad mouth this breeder but I am just genuinely surprised by the email. I would like to think that a large number of people buying puppies from breeders are first time buyers, not just from the breeder but this is their first time buying a puppy from anyone. I grew up with a dog but I didn't buy him (my parents did), so this is the first time I'll be buying a puppy myself. Naturally one of the questions a first time buyer will ask is "how much?" Given our inexperience with puppy prices, any figure quoted to me will make me want to do further research to find out whether or not it is a reasonable price. In the months that I have been researching various breeds, I have come across puppies more expensive than others when even the cheaper ones even had more going for them (ie. breeder is more popular, own dogs that have won more shows, nicer to potential buyers, etc). But this isn't my complaint--the breeder in question is actually very nice. I was just stating a point. Ok back to my inexperience... In dealing with the breeder I asked a lot about interstate transport costs, her experiences with them, and who would offer the best price. I asked whether she was willing to drive the pup to the airport so I can save costs. I wasn't insisting, I was really just asking and I only asked once (yes, once). Once I figured out that it may be a huge invonvenience to the breeder I decided to just book a pickup from a well known pet transport company. The original plan was for me to have the pup picked up at 12 weeks and I was told by then I was told it would already have 2 vaccinations. Circumstances changed on my end and now I could accommodate the puppy at 10 weeks. She said it was fine but the pup will only have been vaccinated once and I'd need to to have the 2nd vaccination myself. I was OK with this, but casually asked whether she'd be willing to reduce the price slightly just to cover the 2nd vaccination. It was at this point that the breeder sent me a lengthy email about her concerns if buying a breed that may require more than usual maintenance costs is for me. She even cited the examples I've just mentioned, and was told that none of her buyers have questioned the price of the puppy or transport. Just always went with what she suggested and paid whatever price was asked. Now my question to breeders here is this... did I really sound that bad? Do most people really just take your word for it and pay whatever money you ask? I have just been made aware that breeders spend thousands raising a litter, and sometimes only make a modest amount from the puppy prices they ask. But I (and the many first time buyers) don't know that... so it would be natural to ask around and find out more about how much something really costs. Modesty aside...the interesting twist to this story is that I'm not poor, far from it. I earn a 6 digit salary, own 2 properties, and got no kids. I buy nice things and drive a nice car. However, these "nice things" I speak of were well researched and I made sure I'm getting good value. I just want to make an informed decision with any purchase. Not everyone who does research is shopping around for the cheapest price. Another example is that I am the sort of person who, if quoted $400 for 30 min plumbing job, would question the price or call around. I know of people who earn half my salary who wouldn't and just pay up... now I don't know if that's the average type of person. I may be abnormal or just too cautious I don't know... but it's not because I can't afford it. I just want to make an informed decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hard to know from what you've written but are all these communications via email or phone? Breeds are all different but with my pups it's quite normal for them to go to their new homes at 8 weeks and if someone wanted me to keep a pup until it was 12 weeks then it's possible I would expect them to pay extra for the 2nd vaccination (ie on top of the original price). We have no issues driving pups to the airport and don't even wait for it to be suggested - we're only 40 minutes by highway/motorway from the airport, if we were further away it could be a different story - but if someone asked if we would take the pup to the airport to save money this would definitely get my back up. Take the pup to the airport because I care about what happens to the pup between my home & yours, take the pup to the airport because you care what happens to the pup between my home & yours - fine, but because of the cost, that would make me grumpy and suspecious. Phone the breeder and have a conversation - it's very difficult to get the shades of meaning in an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Breeders need to be sure that new owners won't skimp on the cost of caring for a pup, and your questions have made her concerned. As Sandra said, ring her if you have not done that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Seems slightly odd to do so much 'shopping around' if you weren't looking for the cheapest price? IMO if you've found a reg breeder you get along with, whose dogs you love and vice versa, you're usually going to be getting your moneys worth, whatever that money may be. A vacc is pretty cheap, it does sound odd to me to ask for money off the purchase price for that, and I can see her concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 A vacc is pretty cheap, it does sound odd to me to ask for money off the purchase price for that, and I can see her concerns. *nods* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 First off, it took me two seconds to find out which breed and breeder. Just a headsup. Second, if you always shop around, even for tradesman, why didnt you sort out all the cost questions prior to paying a deposit? Anyway, as Sandra said, just call your breeder and have a chat. Hopefully it all gets sorted over the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 It can be really hard with questions on forums like this. Emails and written communication are also very hard as you cannot tell the intent behind the question. Sometimes it is better to pick up the phone and talk to the breeder and ask questions. You get a much better insight into the question by hearing how it is asked. Most puppies are sold at 8 weeks and it is up to the buyer to pay for the second vaccination and sometimes third vaccination (as some vets want to a 16 week booster). If you were questioning transport costs, I personally would have picked up the yellow pages and rang some of the leading transport companies and got quotes for prices for door to door, door to airport then airport etc. Depending on whether the pup is flying Virgin or Qantas will also depend on the shipping price. Qantas charges cubed dimension and weight, whereas Virgin charges by weight. So generally Qantas is much dearer. Some airports (and I have experienced this) will only have one airline freight. Example if I was flying a dog in and out of Canberra Airport I can only use Qantas. As a breeder, I could not care if you were on a four digit salary or a 10 digit salary. It comes down to whether I think you (and "you" here is generally speaking) can provide for the puppy in question. People on large salaries can be stingy whereas the person on a low salary can sacrifice their comfort for their animal as that is what provides the escape to their hard life. Of course people with money can also spoil their animals rotten. So this is no hit at your salary. Also as a breeder if you have had a bad experience with a puppy buyer (whether they be new or old) not providing for the dog and even if they had the means to care for it didn't these questions read in an email can be seen as a red flag. Especially if the email was read after a long day at work or some other time where the reader may be feeling a little sensitive. Generally we as breeders will not reduce the price of a puppy because of a vaccination. If there is a health issue, puppy is now 6 months or some other reason, the breeder may offer it at a reduced rate to find it a home as it is no longer "cute and fluffy" and as such a certain amount of appeal can be lost on people wanting that "cute and fluffy" and not see possible benefits such as toilet training, lead and collar training etc. You are generally talking about $40-$70 for a vaccination depending on the vet. And really, the extra two weeks also looking after and feeding/worming the puppy is also on top of that. So for the breeder to keep the puppy for an extra two weeks could also be seen as she should have charged you board for that time - as I mentioned at the beginning of the post - most puppies go at 8 weeks. If you have any doubts or questions, I would probably give the breeder a ring and explain your questions were not as the breeder read them to be and there may have been a misunderstanding in meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesluvscavs Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Hi and welcome to Dol :) When we were looking for breeder and a future puppy, I really didn't know how much they were being sold for these days. We bought one of our years ago, and the breeder also gave us down the track, the Mother of the one we bought. We were on the lookout at the time, and didn't really know how much they were worth. When we came across Joey at a show, he was up for sale to the right person/people. The breeder chose us, and we only found out then how much he would be. We had been saving for a while, so without any question, as we had fallen in love with him, we agreed to the price and was content with paying what she was asking :) With our new puppy, we never once asked how much she would be, that came up a lot later when we knew we would be defiantly getting her. We knew puppy prices had gone up over the years, and we were expecting it could be fairly high ( we had waiting a long time for one, so had saved for ages). We had many conversations via emails over this time and had met the breeder at past club fun days. Some breeders like ours wont even take a deposit for various reasons , and we totally understood them. And our breeders of our Cavs always want to meet the potential owners of their pups/dogs well before any point of sale. However not every breeders feels/does the same. I know we wen't first time dog buyers, but it was our first time buying a puppy. I wouldn't have cared what money was being asked ( well long as we could afford it of course), but the main concern wasn't with price comparisons, but the quality of the pup (and a couple other factors) and in our case the ongoing support with its breeder :) They should be as choosy, as we are about them too IMO :) Ps we had our puppy delivered to us at 10 weeks, we just had to get her second vaccination done. Edited April 12, 2013 by Jules❤3Cavs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyboy Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hard to know from what you've written but are all these communications via email or phone? Breeds are all different but with my pups it's quite normal for them to go to their new homes at 8 weeks and if someone wanted me to keep a pup until it was 12 weeks then it's possible I would expect them to pay extra for the 2nd vaccination (ie on top of the original price). We have no issues driving pups to the airport and don't even wait for it to be suggested - we're only 40 minutes by highway/motorway from the airport, if we were further away it could be a different story - but if someone asked if we would take the pup to the airport to save money this would definitely get my back up. Take the pup to the airport because I care about what happens to the pup between my home & yours, take the pup to the airport because you care what happens to the pup between my home & yours - fine, but because of the cost, that would make me grumpy and suspecious. Phone the breeder and have a conversation - it's very difficult to get the shades of meaning in an email. I understand but as a first time buyer I didn't know that about vaccination. I've just assumed that the puppy came with 2 vaccinations. With regards to driving the pup to the airport, it wasn't until she told me she lived x minutes from the airport did I figure out that it was a big inconvenience. Once told, I never asked or insisted again. Pet transport companies charge a big amount for such small distances. I suppose my only grip is that you can't expect everyone to know your situation. I didn't know about vaccinations and I don't know how far the breeder is from the airport, and I don't know how much they spend on puppies when raising them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyboy Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 First off, it took me two seconds to find out which breed and breeder. Just a headsup. Second, if you always shop around, even for tradesman, why didnt you sort out all the cost questions prior to paying a deposit? Anyway, as Sandra said, just call your breeder and have a chat. Hopefully it all gets sorted over the phone. Sorry I'd like to reply to this first. It is not the breed and breeder I mentioned in this forum. I have decided not to get an Elkhoud because my gf thinks it's not a good match for her Lab. I hope the Elky breeder doesn't get upset as they know I'm not buying from them anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsegal98 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 As PP states, your post history makes it easy to figure out the breeder. Also, I do not talk about cost at all until the breeder brings it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Perhaps the OP doesn't know the price of litter vacs. I think there's nothing wrong with asking questions but there's always a danger they'll be misinterpreted, especially when they're in writing (email). I hope you can sort it out and both gain the info you need from each other to decide if it's the right puppy for you. You might be better off making a phone call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 We have no issues driving pups to the airport and don't even wait for it to be suggested - we're only 40 minutes by highway/motorway from the airport, if we were further away it could be a different story - but if someone asked if we would take the pup to the airport to save money this would definitely get my back up. Take the pup to the airport because I care about what happens to the pup between my home & yours, take the pup to the airport because you care what happens to the pup between my home & yours - fine, but because of the cost, that would make me grumpy and suspecious. Yes, this would get my back up a bit too, for exactly the same reasons. A vacc is pretty cheap, it does sound odd to me to ask for money off the purchase price for that, and I can see her concerns. This also would irk me a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyboy Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Seems slightly odd to do so much 'shopping around' if you weren't looking for the cheapest price? IMO if you've found a reg breeder you get along with, whose dogs you love and vice versa, you're usually going to be getting your moneys worth, whatever that money may be. A vacc is pretty cheap, it does sound odd to me to ask for money off the purchase price for that, and I can see her concerns. It is not odd IMHO because you want to know how much they really go for. I really disagree with 'whatever that money may be' argument. I shopped around for transport costs and still ended up with someone more expensive (Jetpets) than the competition. I was looking at up to $70 cheaper but still went with Jetpets because of their reputation. That goes to show that not everyone shopping around is looking for the best price. Furthermore it wasn't the puppy I was shopping around with, but the pet transport! I just called another breeder of the same breed to see whether the original breeder price is within the same ballpark. I'm not going to pay $5000 (for example) for the same breed, both registered, where another is going for $2000. Of course this is an exaggeration but the service I am getting surely isn't worth $3000. Edited April 12, 2013 by ziggyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 As PP states, your post history makes it easy to figure out the breeder. Also, I do not talk about cost at all until the breeder brings it up. what if they dont bring it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggyboy Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 A vacc is pretty cheap, it does sound odd to me to ask for money off the purchase price for that, and I can see her concerns. This also would irk me a bit. But again I would like to point out that I do not know this????? First time puppy owner remember???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Asking about things to do with price and breeders is a ticklish business. I think researching the general range of cost for the breed is a good thing, so then you know what sort of price to expect to pay. In my breeds some breeders state this on their website. If not stated on the website, I ask the price after having a conversation with them where I discuss what I am looking for and the sort of dogs they have, so not the first time I talk to them. Finding out which vaccinations the puppy has had is important, but changing the price due to vaccination status (unless to increase the price if they have given more than one) is not common, most puppies come with the first vaccination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 To be blunt, if you sounded in your emails the way you sound in your post, I would be concerned that you couldn't afford the puppy. Never mind that you earn a six figure salary. Unless you've said that to the breeder, she wouldn't know. Honestly, asking for a discount because of the second vaccination just makes you sound like a cheapskate. You may be, I don't know, but I certainly wouldn't want to sound like that to anyone let alone someone I'm getting a dog from. It would raise too many alarm bells where none are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 As a puppy buyer whether you are new or even a breeder. To ask the purchase price of the puppy is one thing and I believe that is a question that should be allowed. Maybe more so if you are new to the breed. Some people may need to save up for that initial cost. As for the transport, vaccinations etc.. That is also part of doing your homework and if you failed to get these prices while doing your homework then I would say your research is somewhat lacking. It does not take much to ring your local vet to ask the price for worming, vaccinations etc. There are also plenty of threads on here about online vet places to get worming, flea/tick products. Even Google is your friend as far as that goes. Most breeders I know who live a distance from the airport will do an airport run and will try to book as many pups who are flying around the same time so it will be only one maybe two trips to the airport. Those that live much further away, would say they may charge extra or freight will be on top of the purchase price. As for knowing about situations.. The breeder may not have known yours and it would appear you did not know the breeder's. Communication is a two way street. The dog world is quite small. As others have hinted to here, it was not hard (I could not be bothered looking) to find out which breed you were getting and from there, quite possible to know which breeder it was. If you are not getting a dog from this breeder, I would suggest doing some other more basic research before looking at getting another dog and even try to mend some shaky bridges caused by your implied questions to this breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsegal98 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 They normally do before they let you take the pup!! ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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