Poodle wrangler Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I've been watching Kikopup's free YouTube videos for training & clicker training, then found this on her blog suggesting collars might harm a dog's neck .. http://clicktreat.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/is-it-harmful-to-attach-aleash-to-your.html Any thoughts? I have a standard poodle puppy who'll grow to be around 25kg+ We're training, so I'm not looking at a harness as a solution for pulling etc. I've only used flat collars before, with no problems (I'm aware of). Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I love kikopup, but this article is way off the mark. The clue is in the reference to really, really bad articles. I think the best way to research is to begin your search on Google Scholar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 While i do believe that constant pressure on a dogs collar COULD cause damage and i do use harnesses a great deal, i really don't have a problem with using collars either. It would be really interesting to have some studies done on dogs necks once they have passed to see whether there is more scar tissue. I have heard from a person who works at a knackery for horses that they can tell which horses are the dressage horses due to the scar tissue on their sides from spurs. Whether this is true or not i'm not sure but it is interesting and worth further exploration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 over many years..our working sheepdogs have been on chains for a lot of their life ..with ordinary leather , etc collars ... and if there was to be damage done to the trachea/muscles,from running around on chains, being tied up at the back of sheepyards when young, and spending an hour or two frequently lunging and barking .... I would imagine dogs having problems with getting tired, heatstroke, funny bark,,, none of which I have ever notuiced, I must admit. many years ago training guide dogs was done using chain correction collars ..and leather collars ... and as far as I know there seemed to be no noticeable damage .... it would be interesting to see any research though :) I can understand "scarring" from the rowels on spurs .. they are an edge ..... and , being used as a fairly constant guide , get tapped against a horse's side a lot .... to me it is a bit like a callous on your foot where a part of your shoe rubs ..or indents on fingers used for certain tasks , day after day ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesluvscavs Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 My trainer has said it can cause damage to a dogs thyroid. With our Cavs we mostly use harness's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I'm calling shite here. I've seen working dogs hit collars again and again for years, they live into their teens quite happily. Dont slam the dog around on the collar or rip it's head off, but normal use I have never seen harm caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I wonder whether a collar be any different though- is it that a spur has an edge that makes a difference? Really the rowels roll along the horses side so which would leave more scar tissue, ones with a blunt edge or those that roll along. Wonder which is a more similar effect to a dog on a collar and lead. Sorry, bit OT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 But Nek does that mean there is no damage? Or that the damage done has no impact on the dogs life/ longevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 My trainer has said it can cause damage to a dogs thyroid. With our Cavs we mostly use harness's. *sigh* the more we learn, the worse it gets .... like with humans ..everything can increase our chances of cancer .... I guess it is possible , given the positioning of the thyroid... are there any figures of the probability ....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) Ther will only be damage if a dog is constantly pull, hitting the colalr etc. My aim is to have my dogs walk on a lose lead and they are not tethered. The working dog is tethered but he has been taught how to tether correctly so doesn't hit the end of his either. Oh and I do not use Harnesses unless for a specific reason, Neck injury Sledding dog sport requiring use of a harness - tracking etc I see no need to use on, I do see a need to have a dog walk on a loose lead. Edited November 7, 2013 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I'm calling shite here. I've seen working dogs hit collars again and again for years, they live into their teens quite happily. Dont slam the dog around on the collar or rip it's head off, but normal use I have never seen harm caused. *nods* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesluvscavs Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I have no facts Pers, i guess everything is causing cancer now in animals and us humans, or we just hearing about it more due to social media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 My trainer has said it can cause damage to a dogs thyroid. With our Cavs we mostly use harness's. *sigh* the more we learn, the worse it gets .... like with humans ..everything can increase our chances of cancer .... I guess it is possible , given the positioning of the thyroid... are there any figures of the probability ....? I didn't find any. You want to avoid inflammation, spinal damage etc but the Dobias article that everyone seems to be citing (including kikopup) is just out and out nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I wonder whether a collar be any different though- is it that a spur has an edge that makes a difference? Really the rowels roll along the horses side so which would leave more scar tissue, ones with a blunt edge or those that roll along. Wonder which is a more similar effect to a dog on a collar and lead. Sorry, bit OT not the same effect .. I would imagine ..being a different action ? Is it really scar tissue ? Or a defensive tissue thickening ? NEKH ??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I have no facts Pers, i guess everything is causing cancer now in animals and us humans, or we just hearing about it more due to social media Poor reporting, poor understanding of statistics in the media and the general public. Most things can do you damage, drinking too much water can kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) I have seen horses bleeding from spur use with rowels, yes even the rounded ones as they are thin and can do damage. I have seen damage from blunt little short ones as well. Considering how sensitive horses are I would think thickening along the sides is more an idication of an idiot owner/rider than being from a cetain discipline as I have never required spurs on any of my dressage horses. Those that worl at higher levels that d use them wouldn't use them heavily enough to cause that sort of thickening or scarring, the want a horse to want to work, not to avoid, start or run away from the leg. Edited November 7, 2013 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Dr Jean Dodds (canine Thyroid expert) seems to think collars can damage thyroids: http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/post/41645121585/dog-collars-thyroid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 *sigh* the more we learn, the worse it gets .... like with humans ..everything can increase our chances of cancer .... I would be more than happy to source a large number of articles for you that will irrefutably prove that research causes cancer in rats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Dr Jean Dodds (canine Thyroid expert) seems to think collars can damage thyroids: http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/post/41645121585/dog-collars-thyroid I didn't read it all, but the first paragraph says constant pulling on a leash can cause damage. That's a world away from a collar causing damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 This has to be one of the most idiotic articles I've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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