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Kenny

Please help me make the right decision

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Kenny   

Hi all

 

I need some valuable guidance and opinions please.

 

I live in a townhouse. Cross the road is a park where kids play, people walk and a its a vibrant park.

I live with my wife and 4 children. Ages 15, 11, 4 and 2.

I have placed a deposit of $100 for an American Staffordshire Terrier.

 

Back in the days, I met a Pitbull for a couple of hours, and it was the most friendliest dog ever, apart from my Pomeranian that I miss dearly.

 

I understand that the Amstaff is a very strong breed.

After reading through this website, it has came to my senses that I may find some hardships if I go ahead with the puppy.

The plan is to take home the pup on Sunday 2nd Dec.

 

The pup costs $450, not microchipped , not vaccinated, nor wormed or anything.

I asked the breeder after I deposited $100, ( I suffer from Impulsive buying Syndrome ) if he could lower the price of the pup, as it wasn't vaccinated. However the breeder kept it firmly at $450.

I purchased Dog foods, total about $150 approx, went to Kmart to get some accessories like chew toys, bed, potty training mat as well.  I don't know if I have all the receipts to be honest.

 

My plan is to get my oldest daughter who is 15 yrs of age, to get the puppy to puppy school.

Vaccinate the puppy and all the worming and flea treatment, and also to get the puppy desexed when the right time comes.

 

I can take the dog out to exercise early morning at the park. My daughters can take them again to the park after school.

I plan on also going to my sisters house in the mountains to introduce my puppy to her 3 dogs. 2 labradors and a hairy poodle. 3 grown up dogs.

 

In March of 2020, our plan is to go overseas for about 3 weeks holiday, and to ask my sister to help look after our dog. I am hoping they will get along just fine. Im not too sure.

 

If I decide to cancel the puppy, I think I will lose the $100 deposit. 

I can refund some of the things I've purchased.

 

My 2 year old son asked if he could have the puppy sit on his lap, and he gently stroked it when we saw it.

However at home, my 2 youngest kids have toys scattered all over the place. I am worried about the puppy chewing and eating them.

 

Please let me know what you think... before Sunday, as my mind is now spinning.

 

Thanks

 

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7 hours ago, Kenny said:

Hi all

 

I need some valuable guidance and opinions please.

 

I live in a townhouse. Cross the road is a park where kids play, people walk and a its a vibrant park.

I live with my wife and 4 children. Ages 15, 11, 4 and 2.

I have placed a deposit of $100 for an American Staffordshire Terrier.

 

Back in the days, I met a Pitbull for a couple of hours, and it was the most friendliest dog ever, apart from my Pomeranian that I miss dearly.

 

I understand that the Amstaff is a very strong breed.

After reading through this website, it has came to my senses that I may find some hardships if I go ahead with the puppy.

The plan is to take home the pup on Sunday 2nd Dec.

 

The pup costs $450, not microchipped , not vaccinated, nor wormed or anything.

I asked the breeder after I deposited $100, ( I suffer from Impulsive buying Syndrome ) if he could lower the price of the pup, as it wasn't vaccinated. However the breeder kept it firmly at $450.

I purchased Dog foods, total about $150 approx, went to Kmart to get some accessories like chew toys, bed, potty training mat as well.  I don't know if I have all the receipts to be honest.

 

My plan is to get my oldest daughter who is 15 yrs of age, to get the puppy to puppy school.

Vaccinate the puppy and all the worming and flea treatment, and also to get the puppy desexed when the right time comes.

 

I can take the dog out to exercise early morning at the park. My daughters can take them again to the park after school.

I plan on also going to my sisters house in the mountains to introduce my puppy to her 3 dogs. 2 labradors and a hairy poodle. 3 grown up dogs.

 

In March of 2020, our plan is to go overseas for about 3 weeks holiday, and to ask my sister to help look after our dog. I am hoping they will get along just fine. Im not too sure.

 

If I decide to cancel the puppy, I think I will lose the $100 deposit. 

I can refund some of the things I've purchased.

 

My 2 year old son asked if he could have the puppy sit on his lap, and he gently stroked it when we saw it.

However at home, my 2 youngest kids have toys scattered all over the place. I am worried about the puppy chewing and eating them.

 

Please let me know what you think... before Sunday, as my mind is now spinning.

 

Thanks

 

I wouldn't buy from a backyard puppy farm. They couldn't care less about the health of the dog plus you have no guarantee of the breed you're really getting. You might end up with a lot of heartache. Jut my opinion.

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Run! 

Despite it being illegal to sell non-microchipped pets it's disgustingly negligent to not vaccinate or worm (pups can die from worms! and summer is rife with parvo!). 

 

Find an ethical pedigree breeder. You'll likely pay more but it's worth it. 

 

And yes, you're likely to lose any kid's toys you don't keep away from a puppy. 

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tikira   

Hi Kenny

Welcome to the forum, and good on you for attempting to get your thoughts straight before your decision is final.

 

The main thing I see in your post is that you are concerned that you are doing the right thing. No-one can make up your mind for you, but your post seems to indicate very strongly that you know that this is not the right time or that your circumstances are right at the moment for this particular puppy.

 

You mentioned your two year old wants to nurse the puppy. This will not be possible for long with a dog the size of the one you are looking at, they grow very fast. Puppy School will only be the beginning of training for your dog, it will take intensive training and socialisation by all the family for a long time to ensure any puppy is well adjusted puppy and is safe to leave alone with your young children. Are there provisions at your townhouse to separate your dog from the children when you are not supervising? 

 

Have you met the pups parents? What are their tempraments like? If the parents are not good with children or animals, you could have a much bigger problem as to whether this pup will be good with  your children and your sisters dogs?

 

By 2020 your pup will be a mad crazy hormone filled teenager, and no doubt will be headstrong. Can you train him adequately by then? What if he does not get on with your sisters dogs? Do you have a "plan B"?

 

If you decide not to purchase this particular pup you will still have the things you have bought, and I know that after Christmas  many people  regret their "holiday decision", and there will be many puppies and dogs at the local pounds and in Foster Care that will need good homes. Perhaps waiting until the New Year and adopting a dog or Puppy that has all its vac's, is desexed and microchipped would be worth considering? That way you are getting value for money, peace of mind and a much better chance of a dog that is going to fit into your family. Many foster dogs are already living with families with young children and other pets, and the carer can help choose the correct friend for your family. 

 

These are just a few points to consider. Everyone here understands the desire to have a dog, and sometimes it is hard to talk yourself out of getting a "heartdog breed", but honestly, maybe you need to consider postponing getting this breed, given the fact that you have expressed that you have many doubts about the situation.

 

This is your decision, think it through thoroughly, and try to take the emotion out of the equation.

 

Good luck with it all, it is a hard situation to go through.

 

Regards Di

 

 

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kenny .

Welcome .

Run. Now. 

Please, for all your sakes do NOT buy a pup  whose current owners are seemingly selling with no regard to laws or health  .  

do NOT support their  bad choices. 

An amstaff in a houseful of kids with toys ........ the Grinch will seem like santa  :(

I think you are heading in the right direction . yes..you will lose the deposit . BUT .You will have gained a LOT of knowledge ....and , when , AFTER some good research about which dog would suit your family ..you will get support from the Dogzonline forum folks . 

best of luck with it all ... and I  urge you to listen  to, and go with, what your little voice is trying to tell you .

(we may also be able to help you cope with the fallout) 

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48 minutes ago, tikira said:

Perhaps waiting until the New Year and adopting a dog or Puppy that has all its vac's, is desexed and microchipped would be worth considering? That way you are getting value for money, peace of mind and a much better chance of a dog that is going to fit into your family. Many foster dogs are already living with families with young children and other pets, and the carer can help choose the correct friend for your family. 

this is sensible advice :)

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juice   

Tikira is spot on.

This pup will very quickly become a very powerful solid machine, who will destroy toys, knock kids over mouth them , with very sharp teeth,and be hard to handle unless you put alot of work in.

They are a very smart and demanding breed and not for the faint hearted. I wouldn't touch an unpapered Amstaff with a barge pole, dodgy temp is the last thing you nee around your kids and other dogs.

Personally i would go to a reputable rescue ( there are alot of dodgy ones out there), who has had a slightly older dog in care , in a home situation already that is good with kids and dogs. You get a trail period too.

Rescue dogs are not all " broken" as people think , my best dogs have come to me that way.

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Totally not the advice you want.. 

 

But my kids have stuff scattered everywhere too.. dogs chew them, I throw them in the bin. It is a truly excellent system for keeping the amounts of 'stuff' in check !! :rofl:

 

For the same amount of money you could get a dog from a local rescue, one that has been around children and genuinely likes children? (A beautiful soft laaaazy greyhound perhaps!) Whether a new pup or older dog gets along with your sisters dogs -that you will not know until they meet. There are no guarantees!

 

Dont let money be the decider. But honestly, if you are stressing, might be best to walk away from this and re-think what you and the family really want.

 

Good luck!!!!

Edited by crazydoglady99
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karen15   

At this stage, your financial loss is minimal. If you get the pup you will have ongoing costs and emotional investment for a situation that sounds like it's not going to work. I'd cut my losses and spend time looking for the right dog for your situation. That may be an older amstaff from a rescue as noted above, that's experienced with kids and a good family fit. It may be another breed. A dog will be with you for 15 years or so, so take time at the beginning to select the right dog for your family.

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asal   

Honestly, so glad you asked before you picked it up, There is a very good reason it is illegal to sell an unvaccinated, unmicrochipped puppy. Let alone unwormed puppy, the intestinal damage , even if wormed immediately can be too late and it will die anyway. 

 

RUN...........not walk, as fast as you can, away from that puppy.  the 100 is a minuscule loss compared to what you may suffer if you dont, both financial and emotional .

 

its heartbreak  your heading for.

Was asked to chip a puppy for a friends boyfriend.. same scene... soon as I saw the puppy I refused to chip it, no  vaccination either, hot nose all danger signs. told them to take it to the vet immediately..... $2,700 later in vet bills it died, that was one very expensive puppy, a significant percentage of these unvaccinated, unwormed puppies ARE going to die.  VERY expensively too if its you footing the bill.

 

See it way, way too often. 

 

Shouldn't still be happening,  there is not enough education of people happening.  

 

your next call should be the to police to report an illegal person, they are not a breeder, if they were, all the necessary would have been done.

 

 

Edited by asal
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All the things said above, plus, if the dog doesn't have papers, it will be vulnerable to being classified as a pit bull, with all the associated legal problems.  

Another breed problem may be dog aggression.  AmStaffs are not bred for fighting, nor are most pitties, but both breeds have tendencies to be dog aggressive, and it can require a lot of work to keep this in check. 

Edited by sandgrubber
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Malamum   

So much good advice given already so I'm not going to repeat it.

 

The pup not being vaccinated, wormed or microchipped is a huge red flag and others have already covered this.

 

All I would say when considering getting a puppy is that you ask yourself whether you're setting yourself up for success or failure.  You sound like you have a busy home and busy life (and potentially limited space) and puppies will get into anything they can so you will either need to ensure that there is nothing lying around for the puppy to get into or have the space to set up a puppy pen so that he/she can be in a safe and contained space when not being fully supervised (by an adult).   We have a 15 week old puppy at the moment and this is what we are doing.  We don't leave things around for him to get but we don't give him free reign to run amok in the house either. :)

 

Also, when deciding what breed to get, do some research on the history of the breed and what they were originally bred to do and that will give you an idea of the inherent traits that the dog will most probably have and that will help you narrow down breeds that will fit best into your lifestyle.   

 

Good luck with it all.

 

 

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Kenny   

Hi all

 

I sincerely thank all of you who have contributed your time, knowledge and guidance towards my situation.

 

I have declined the purchase of the puppy.

 

It was one of those extremely difficult decision to make. Easier said than done sort of thing.

 

Sorry that I have not replied to anyone by answering your questions, however every post made, I have read it at least 4 times, and answered your questions in my mind.

I apologise for not being very polite in answering one by one.

 

I cannot promise that I will look for a reputable breeder in the near future.   Papered puppies costs about 3 times more, and I understand the many years of selecting, screening, and breeding for the health of future pups. The price is all worth it. However I am not that lucky to be able to afford one in that price range.

Some may think I should not have the privilege to own a dog if thats the case... I understand.  However in life some things happens for a reason that we cannot comprehend.

My Pomeranian I purchased was from a back yard breeder, she saved my a daughters life.  Thats another story, but you see, it was meant to be. 

 

My heart is for a bully breed. I have to find one.

 

Much appreciated.

 

Kenny

 

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Kenny, you’ve made the right decision. May I suggest you look at adopting a rescue dog or puppy if you want to go ahead with getting a dog. I would suggest one that has been in foster care, so there’s a greater chance of knowing the suitability to live with children. Your rescue will come desexed, vaccinated, wormed, all that great stuff; you won’t be supporting unethetical breeders; and you’ll save a life in the process. Rescues are overflowing with the very type of dog you have your heart set on.

Edited by Papillon Kisses
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Well thought out, kenny :) Thank you for updating us !

So you cannot afford a papered purebred. Lots can't .

A GOOD rescue will probably have a dog for you .
A dog who has all its vet work done >
A dog who is chipped/vaccinated/wormed/desexed.
A dog who has been in foster care .. with children , so you know what you are getting ...

an example ...pay 500 for a BYB pup 
add vet check /worming/desexing, etc etc .....  a lot of money .

An ethical and reputable rescue will do home checks /yard checks to ensure you can provide well for a dog :)
They will have all sorts of dogs , in all sorts of foster homes ...where dogs learn all sorts of things .
When a dog is adopted , the foster carer can then say ... Bozo LOVES  3 year olds to sing to him ... Bozo only barks at rats ..Bozo will eat  broccoli, and Bozo isn't keen on drunk men ... ( for example) 

SO ..you know a lot of what to expect :)

Bullbreeds and Bullbreed crosses are everywhere in rescue .... please be guided by folks on here who have dealt with the many rescue organisations 'out there' , and who can steer you in the right direction .  :)

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Bully pups end up in rescue many times, perhaps there you might find your future companion? But you definitely want them to have the minimum start up in life of being wormed, vaccinated and microshipped :) (avoid a rescue that doesn't do those as well! it's the bare minimum of responsibility!)

Especially with christmas coming, it is all too unfortunate that many perfectly fine puppies and slightly-older-puppies will find themselves in rescue soon after :( hold on to that patience and keep an eye out, a dear sweet puppy will find its way to you sooner or later :)

 

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8 hours ago, Kenny said:

Hi all

 

I sincerely thank all of you who have contributed your time, knowledge and guidance towards my situation.

 

I have declined the purchase of the puppy.

 

It was one of those extremely difficult decision to make. Easier said than done sort of thing.

 

Sorry that I have not replied to anyone by answering your questions, however every post made, I have read it at least 4 times, and answered your questions in my mind.

I apologise for not being very polite in answering one by one.

 

I cannot promise that I will look for a reputable breeder in the near future.   Papered puppies costs about 3 times more, and I understand the many years of selecting, screening, and breeding for the health of future pups. The price is all worth it. However I am not that lucky to be able to afford one in that price range.

Some may think I should not have the privilege to own a dog if thats the case... I understand.  However in life some things happens for a reason that we cannot comprehend.

My Pomeranian I purchased was from a back yard breeder, she saved my a daughters life.  Thats another story, but you see, it was meant to be. 

 

My heart is for a bully breed. I have to find one.

 

Much appreciated.

 

Kenny

 

Have you looked at the older dogs for sale page?? You never know one might suits you to a 't'.

 

https://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/mature/american-staffordshire-terrier.asp

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juice   

I could never afford a pure bred pup either , I’m a single mum and $2000 is money I will never have . However I now have 2 purebred bullies , top lines , both were ex show / breeding dogs .

They were both housetrained etc and they cost me the price of desexing only to buy . 

There are breeders who are always looking for pet homes for their older dogs ( one was 2 when I got her , one 7 ) . 

Don’t give up if you want one , they are out there .

 

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Hi Kenny, I’m sorry for all you’ve been going through right now! :( 

 

not to stick my nose in or anything, but...let me do just that.

 

papered puppy - the cost is more, I totally get that. 

Example - Even though we’re talking nearly a good three decades worth of inflation here, the same breed of pup without papers cost us all of $100, the paper pup $2,000. 

Bit of a difference, even after allowing for adjustments!!

 

What I think is priceless though, truly, is the work that goes in to rearing the paper pup (that’s the official term I’m using now haha). 

I wanted a pedigree this time round purely for health reasons, as many common breeds are bred solely for $$ at less-than-ethical places and come with more health issues than the geriatric dog you’ve just lost passed away with. 

I knew nothing about breeders, literally nothing, and only by the goodness of God stumbled across my guy who’d just been born, allowing me to skip a waiting list (which again, I had no idea would be a “thing” with common breeds).

 

Well. Let me assure you, my lil kid has been given a much, MUCH better start in life than many humans, including myself (I was put up for adoption at birth and left in hospital for a fortnight before a “difficult” foster care placement for a month).

“My” breeder must have some ability to live on zero sleep or to find extra hours in every day, there is just nothing that those  puppies might possibly want/need/anticipate needing at some point in the future, that they haven’t been given or thoroughly prepared for. You know the list of “what to do on puppy’s first night” list, stuff like that? Rip those up, pup has already been there, done that, and has more life experience than you do. They basically just move in and humor you as you pretend that you’re the one who socialised them. 

 

 

Having not had a paper pup (yay, name ;p) before I would look at the cost breakdown as something more long term like -

— temperament- the ability a breeder has to vouch for a particular temperament (to a certain extent obviously) is not necessarily that important when you’re young, athletic, single etc BUT once you throw in elderly ppl, children, those with disabilities, and so on, it is PRICELESS.

 

Or alternatively, a few hundred bucks to rehome a dog that isn’t suitable for your family and has terrified your child and been traumatised themselves.

 

- Warantee - yes that’s an icky word, but your breeder will take back your pup should you die (sorry) - there’s no need to worry about which lousy relative poor bubba would be stuck with.

This is actually something that is harder to arrange when planning your estate than you’d think as a particular charity may fold leaving your wishes to be interpreted in a way you wouldn’t have wanted, or the dog going to, say, the shelter that you’d nominated only for your poor dog to suffer from a change in policy at that shelter....it’s just incredibly good to have peace of mind, and ease in drafting a will. 

 

- Contact - also under warantee in a way - you have a lifetime of support and info from your breeder. You also have one of the biggest things of all....

 

- KNOWLEDGE!!!!!! (My fave)- 

as cool as it is to get to know a rescue dog and as much as your own pup, papered (love that term) or not will have their own quirks, the knowledge of “oh, he got this from X and X went on to do Y and so we can avoid this problem by doing Z” or

”so the dogs seem to all be fine boarding and they do so at X”

”so these are the scores for (body part name)” or 

“the pups all seem to like X and thrive on eating Y and exercise for Z amount”

and

”if this condition developes do X”.....

 

as someone who has had to to stare blankly at doctors and be all like “I dunno what I’ve inherited”, this means A LOT to me.

Ive also had a few(!!) friends lose their $500 ish pet shop pups after a few weeks and a few whopping vet bills later, and they are not only worse of financially, they’re emotionally wrecked.

 

 

Not to mention that when we’re talking breeds that councils like to crack down on randomly, you will definitely want someone who can prove that your dog is breed A not B, they are of sound temperament, all that stuff. 

Councils can treat some breeds appallingly IMO.

Having someone who can give you proof of lineage if needed would mean a lot to me.

 

- The Ongoing Costs - 

That 2k or so that you fork up initially has nothing on what even a mild health condition will cost over a lifetime. Especially since insurance won’t often pay out for conditions common to certain breeds, it pays to have others do the hard yards for you when it comes to ensuring that their puppies are at the least possible chance of developing aforementioned condition. 

 

Really, even if we look at 1 visit from a trainer to remedy reactivity, and 15 years worth of ointment, we’re up money. 

 

That was long. 

Sorry.

And I know nothing is certain in life, and not to be all MasterCard like but...peace of mind is priceless. 

 

It is really, really just mind blowing how much work has gone into raising a pup well - and how much work that spares the buyer. Which can be make or break if you’re talking kids or a lifestyle with things like travel (because it’s never fun to drive home praying that no one will hit you because who will feed my frightened and chompy rescue??). 

 

Not that this is anything against rescue dogs or anything like that, my beautiful boy was a rescue and worth more than all the money in the world. 

But in terms of monetary cost it’s more, to me anyway, than just the “microchip and worming and vet check, oh my!!” That many dodgy sellers make it out to be.

 

Thanks for tolerating my preach. 

 

 

Edited by CharbearsMa
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