~Anne~

Daisy and Obi…

I’m so sorry to read this. Did I miss something. I re-read the thread in case I did but I thought the vet gave her a clean bill of health only weeks ago? It’s so lovely that she had at least a few weeks of love and comfort at the end. I’m sure she did also with her original owner before he died. So sad but also heartwarming that she got the love and comfort you gave her in her final weeks.

I lived with an epileptic pug for more than 10 years. Monte was my heart dog. I estimate he’d had more than 500+ seizures in that 10 years. He saw Georgina Childs. She was fantastic with him and with me. Monte had clusters of around 4-5 seizures, within a couple of hours, every month or so. Monte’s post ictal was very short. He ran a little manic for up to 30 minutes between seizures and after the last one. We administered Valium rectally when he started his first, and he was also on regular anti seizure medications. In his last 12-18 months this all started to change. Georgina believes there was more happening with his brain in the last few years. He suffered from a severe bout of vestibular which he never really recovered from. He eventually went into status. It broke my heart. He seized for more than 14 hours. They couldn’t break them and we reluctantly euthanised him. He lived a largely happy life regardless of his condition but then he was a pug and they’re not highly stressed or anxious dogs normally. Over the years I had many people tell me to euth him, on here and in person. Meh. He was a happy dog. If he wasn’t, I would not have taken the route we did of heavy medication and 24 hour care for the length of time we did. Ultimately, quality of life is important. If it’s idiopathic epilepsy there will be no rhyme or reason to how it presents. If it’s toxins or disease, this will become apparent. Take the first few steps and be guided by your vet. Seek out a vet with experience with epilepsy if that is what it turns out to be. I dealt with a lot of vets over the years, especially running the rescue and as a former vet nurse, and i know there are vets and there are vets.

The standout issue for me is - did she know, or could she have been aware of the issue prior to selling you the pup? If so, then she has a legal (I think) and moral obligation to compensate you. If she wasn't aware there was an issue, then I don't believe you should hold her liable. The dog world is so damn mystifying at times - we want to think of them as 'family' and as living 'feeling' creatures, but then we treat them as commodities when we purchase. "This commodity is not fit for purpose" is what you're basically saying. Yes, that's probably a rather simplistic view of it all but it is by no means wrong still. Is she still selling puppies and breeding that pair of dogs? Probably, but its not your issue to worry about. You've alerted her to the concerns. You've done what is the reasonable and moral thing to do. Now move on. Love your dog, give it the best life you can.

What state are you in? It’s a matter of law and legislative requirements for companion animals and each state is slightly different. Regardless of state the breeder has absolutely no rights to threaten anything and they’re powerless under the law to do anything too. You legally own the dog (assuming you have proof of purchase) regardless of the previous owners promises to the breeder.

Apologies, but I have only skimmed each post so I may be way off course. You can morally and ethically can sell them as what you believe them to be. Just be clear with potential buyers that you cannot guarantee their breeding - ie ‘we believe them to be French Bulldog, but we cannot guarantee they are”. That part is simple. The hard part is ensuring they’re going to the best home. Desexing them will help the odds. I understand the hesitation of early desexing. Is it possible to hold on to them until they’re a little older. Maybe until they’re 4 months, and then desexing before they go to their new home? Regardless of what you do to ensure the home they go to is the best home, no one can ever guarantee this. Even if they are desexed. You can only do your best. Look at all the risks. Speak to others with experience. Trust your gut instinct.

Writing a piece of legislation might sound easy but in truth, it’s not an easy process. Yearly inspections would require manpower and resources. I’m not sure about other states but I do know a little about how NSW companion animal legislation and governance works and there is barely enough at state or local level to support anything more than what currently exists. It’s why microchipping has such mediocre compliance too.

I know that people hate restrictive legislation, but the sooner rescues are legislated and tightly controlled, the better. This may well have been a case of being overwhelmed, and we’ve seen many others over the years. We’ve also seen many organisations and groups claiming to be rescues, when they’re just farming dogs and we’ve seen far, far too many that are just money scammers and frauds. We need strict controls. Social media has amplified the ability for the wrong kinds of people to be involved in animal welfare.

I have a friend who adopted an old cranky Chihuahua 18months ago. She was used to laid back, amicable old pugs. After 18 months I can happily say it’s working out for her as far as I can tell, but there have been many moments of despair. She’s also in the fortunate position of having no children, and no other pets. It’s just her and her partner. They can afford to be patient and it’s much easier for them to manage his moods and deal with his geriatric health concerns. It’s a bit different to your scenario though. You need to make a few decisions.

Your problem is that you took in a dog, that was known to have aggression issues, and you have young children. Emotions ruled the day I’m guessing and you thought you’d be able to save her and you’ve obviously bitten off more than you can chew. A ten year old Chihuahua is not going to suddenly change, even with training. Chis are feisty little dogs and at 10 years of age, that pattern is set in stone. The age and the breed are against you. You will either have to manage the dog to ensure everyone is safe, including the dog, or you find a home that can manage it. Both options will not be easy but can be done.

It does. You can lock it so they can only come in, or go out, or you can have both ways locked. It has two black clips on either side of the internal flap and these turn to lock across the flap. The reason why i like them is that: - they’re transparent, so not a huge eyesore - they’re quiet compared to all other doors I’ve had. Even the dog door which is now 9 years old and was used extensively when my guys were all still on this earth, was quiet right up until the last time they used it. We had ours professionaly installed - which you have to anyway as they’re inserted into glass.

In both NSW and QLD it is law that the seller microchips the dog before sale. The evidence of microchipping is the form, signed by the registered microchipper, and it should include the microchip number and details of the pup. You need to speak to the seller and tell them they’re not complying with the law and there are penalities. Unless you actually paid the money to the nsw breeder, and it was obvious you were buying a pup from them, it would not be their responsibility.

I think ours was a Transpet brand.

We have to installed - one for cats and one that used to be for the pugs. I purchased the clear perspex round ones. They’re very quiet and neat. Like this:

To be fair to PR, it’s a different contact name. Perhaps the woman charged was one of several in the group, or a carer for the group only.

Woohoo. Looking forward to seeing pics.

You can’t force someone to desex a dog and it will cost you a lot to take it through the legal system to be told that. Once a person pays money for the dog, they own it and they can do as they please.

Re the first post. I actually looked at it from the human behaviour perspective and the lack of resilience in our children. It has a ring of truth to it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-20/inquiry-to-be-held-into-pet-food-industry/9890398

$2000 dollars each! I’d call that a fantastic fundraising drive! Being serious though, they’re probably not actually selling them using that messaging and they’re taking advantage of a situation. Not knowing what the situation is, or the who the rescue is, I’m not sure anyone could say if it was definitely unethical but it surely sounds like it might be.

Yes, agree. I guess we are looking at it from different angles of intent. I would be horrified if anyone started a rescue with profit being the aim, which is I believe you’re referring to, and that I can now see. Profit should be an outcome, and it’s healthy for it to be an outcome. It shouldn’t be accidental, it should be planned. My angle is from years of being involved in the arena of rescue and welfare, albeit now just on the peripheral. I think we need a lot more open discussion in rescue. It’s a basket case that thankfully has never yet fallen over in a cataclysmic way. That risk is there though.

Forgive me for my laziness, but I havent read the entire thread - just page 1 and now this page - and I’m only going to focus on one point - profit. @KobiD Profit is not and should not be a dirty word in rescue. The reason why rescues are often considered less than worthy of any other dog/cat is that we focus on the emotional pull of rescue (this poor little dog has been abused) and we expect a rescue to run on the smell of an oily rag. We sell the perception that it’s under par, desperate and lacking. We should be selling it as a choice for pet owners and it should be run as a business. A business that should educate in animal welfare matters and enable people to own and love a pet. We should aim to make a profit. Profit is not a dirty word. Profit doesn’t mean ‘I’m off on a holiday or to buy a new car’. Profit can be reinvested into animal welfare, into desexing programs, education programs, awareness campaigns, promotion, facilities and resources. Rescue is broader than welfare. The welfare mentality drepesses me. There’s a lot that I think is really off in the way rescue has evolved over the years and the perception created by the industry as a whole. Waiver: Im not sure I’ve made a clear point and I apologise for that. I’ve debated so much in the rescue arena over the years that I don’t have the energy anymore to spend time in debates.

@Dame Danny's Darling ironic given you’re lecturing a person seeking advice. If you don’t want to read what I say, feel free to put me on ignore. I did read the entire thread but thanks for the advice. The op is probably not going to return. This thread has gone the way many do when someone seeks advice here. The judgements start and people forget that it’s not always easy to get the gist of a situation in writing. Rather than judging why not just offer advice and give the benefit of doubt? Only the OP knows their precise situation.

Geebus, lighten up everyone! So much judgement! There is nothig wrong with putting a dog in a room for 3-4 hours if the dog is ok with that. I know of many dogs that would be fine with that. They’d simply sleep the time away and if it was done routinely, they would learn the routine and be fine. I think a penned area would also work. We used to pen ours by placing a long straight baby fence across from the breakfast bar to the wall. It’s hard to describe but it enabled us to create a pen that was approx 2.5m x 1m and as it was parallel to the back door where there was a dog door, they could come and go from outside too. From what you’ve described, I would never have recommended a Staffy anyway so the rescue should have screened better in my view. As for returning it, good job. That’s EXACTLY what a responsible person would do and I’m surprised at the responses here by rescuers. That’s WHY we offer a return if it doesn’t work out remember, rescuers? A few tips tips for what it’s worth: - dogs can and do take up to 12 weeks to show their true colours in a rescue rehome situation. Give the dog time to settle, be patient, speak to the rescue and makes sure you know what is the time limit you have to return the dog if it’s not working out. Many don’t offer this ‘settling in’ time at all. - speak to as many people as you can about what breeds are more compliant and not overly active. Although rescues are maninly indeterminate breeds, you can make a judgement on what type you might be looking for. - consider buying and older dog, maybe even a purebred from a breeder. The breeder will know the dog’s personality and traits. - take your time. Get it right. Good luck!

It’s just too horrific to even try to imagine what actually happened. That poor little girl, her mother and the ambos.