asal

LOL the lab nearly went nuts. they reran it expanding the markers, then reran a third time expanding even further the samples had been sent to sire verify a foal that was supposed to be by the aethon son. but I knew he is a dominate grey and the foal was chestnut and was not going to go grey. otherwise it would never have been discovered. the only marker different was the Aethon son had two grey genes and the Razaz son only one grey gene. which incidently I already knew anyway. Razaz is chestnut so it was impossible for his son to have two grey markers. so the DNA profile was for the societys satisfaction.. What else it proved was a surprise all round OH! their blood type was identical too. This was done so long ago the grey marker had not been identified as such yet. but the fact they found two similar markers on the Aethon son and only one in the same locus of the Razaz son was the only difference they could find . The chap who found it was shouted dinner.

this boy is by Aethon from Caprice What they have in common is all four parents are from Department of Agriculture Studs. both have Sala and Razaz in their pedigree along with Shahzada in the case of the Aethon son he has 7 crosses to Shahazada. The Razaz son has also Sala and 1 cross to Shahzada. So how on earth could their DNA BE SO ALIKE ? both Sala and Razaz were SCIDS carriers. Neither of these descendants are SCIDS carriers. So to a lab sheet, these two are the same.... only a breeder looking at these horses can decide which would best suit individual females... because according to the lab they are the same. Obviously they most definitely are not the same .... are they If you are scratching your head wondering what differences? the top boy is far shorter in the back, far longer legs and much higher neck set, head is much shorter with dished face. If you want to become a breeder you need to learn to read the dna sheets, you need to learn what to look for in the living individual just as much, because those dna sheets cant see what you can in the live animal. remember, tis said, the camel was built by a committee.

for example. the DNA profiles for these two horses was discovered to be identical this boy is by Razaz from Hemera

bit puzzled Sandgrubber once your dogs have been dna profiled for the defect markers for their breed, you dont need to labs to tell you which dogs not to use. Equally which ones not to put together You can see that for yourself? They will be there in black and white which markers they carry and which they are clear for.

Just spotted this posted on face plant. exactly what that faceplanter showed me about herself yesterday.... Pity so many feel the need to discriminate anyone Alyce Comer 19 June Let this sink in, and if it doesn’t, read it over and over until it does.

Good point, pity there is a cohort that see themselves as the guardians who need to make moves to drive members to resign To thus incrementally reduce the number of ankc dogs as their dogs are then lost to the registry, ditto for the pups no longer bred because those who remain are afraid to draw attention to themselves if they breed more than 1 or two litters. The self appointed guardians scan every litter registration in the news letter and get busy dialing once a kennel name has appeared more often than they deem acceptable... even though there is nothing in the code of ethics restricting a member from having multiple dogs or breeding litters from them. Being a member of your breed club does not keep you safe, not even showing and winning will keep you safe, not even being an active committee member helping to run shows will keep you safe from the Thought Police Guardians as myself and friends have found the hard way. I found it very illuminating when the person who intimated I was a puppy farmer and thus by inference anything I said was suspect. (the subject was puppy deaths after vaccination, so why the need to attack is beyond my understanding? } when I suggested she too could be called out as a puppy farmer as her facility although state of the art and beautiful, It also meant her dogs are not kept and bred in her home, exactly why a friend was called a puppy farmer by the cohort who believe anyone who does not rise their puppies in their home is a puppy farmer. Her reaction went skitso. Demanded I delete what I had said (I didn't ask her to delete what she said to me?) She said my words had "left a bad taste in her mouth" "destroyed her pleasure in sharing her photos" Well hello pet isn't that just what you did to me? So? she felt so badly by my words, yet she had no hesitation in saying what she had now shown she intended me to feel as badly as she was now complaining about? All I was trying to point out, there is the unfortunate fact there is always some who looks at you and thinks you are not within their acceptable parameter. Even though you most certainly are within the ANKC Code of ethics.

If Richard my vet is right we have less than ten years to stop the ankc becoming insolvent.... I know my friends who are 20 year or over members are concerned he may be right... Am surprised to day to learn younger members are beginning to wonder the same... but watching the boat go over the fall without trying to prevent it is not going to do our dogs any good for the future of the breeds is it? The silent majority have been silent too long assuming all will work out in the end... Hopefully it will, but what if it doesn’t ? It is very hard to stand up to the bullies. I know from painful experience. But turning the other cheek by so many is what has got us to this point. The bullies who accuse any who do not comply with their unwritten code of practice version... ie never breed except for a new show pup, never breed more than 1 or at most two litters from your bitch, for example.................... (which is NOT the actual Official Code of Practice to be found on the individual ANKC state branch sites) have had their way too long. At least you can respect the self appointed thought police ones who voice their opinion with their name to it in writing or to your face even though it is very hurtful and humiliating The slinkers, say nothing to your face, they quietly dial the rspca, animal welfare and your local council and make complaints about your dogs welfare, to the council, they are barking, even though they live on the other side of the state. The slinkers keep it up until if they get lucky a narky rspca inspector uses the opportunity to seize your dog or dogs in hope of a conviction and free press to bring in a windfall of donations. Even if they do not charge you and return your dog or dogs, the slinkers keep up the "where there’s smoke there's fire' in hopes the target will be so traumatised they give up their dogs and membership... Have good reason to do so, has been pretty successful AS for winning the jackpot and the target is charged and usually pleads guilty if they don’t want to lose their home and all they own to the solicitors fees., then they gleefully report the target to the ankc to have their membership cancelled.. At least the latest who pointed the gun and fired at me, did it with her name on what she said. Interesting two called her out for doing it. (Was targeted on a face plant forum yesterday.) No one would have before, so a few are getting tired of the witch hunting of fellow members. Perhaps is an encouraging sign maybe now is the time to call for changes before it’s too late ? Perhaps, It is about time the ANKC’s banned members from accusing fellow members of being puppy farmers.. let alone continue the practice of bullying fellow members to resign because the self appointed bullies decide they are not complying with their idea of the code of ethics. Despite the fact the targeted member is complying with the code of ethics as published by the ANKC of their state! Come to think of it, cant enforce that idea anyway. otherwise will still continue to lose members who then feel THEIR rights have been infringed.???????????? Well, time to pull up a chair, break out the popcorn and chips and see how the movie ends IF Richard IS RIGHT, we dont have long to wait . YIKES! Night all.

so do you mean ALL breeders are puppy farmers as in the derogatory sense that the thought police are determined to eliminate?

My friend made a suggestion as for what is the true definition of a puppy farmer. "Leonie I say puppies farmers are the ones who cross breed (mongrels) not registered purebred." Why has no one suggested this before? All the people hounded out over the decades, accused of being puppy farmers because they didn't show, or produced more litters than the thought police thought acceptable... even though not one of these people had breached the code of ethics, incidentally We who have watched this bullying over the decades and said nothing. Have let these bullies get louder and more savage. My vet has bet me that the ANKC will be insolvent within ten years along with the majority of pedigree dogs extinct. without members ceasing this never ending purging of anyone they dont like, cease making it hard to impossible to get a main register pup, let along register a prefix he will be right. .

As this is a purebred dog forum. What are your thoughts to this subject? reading this rises a very valid problem our breeds are facing. "I mentioned how my dogs live because it used to irk me *a lot* when l was breeding Maltese a certain fellow Maltese breeder first name Jan, used to delight in telling everyone who would listen that l was a Puppy Farmer. This was apparently because l only showed my Malts once a year at the Royal. My Malts had free run of the house, not penned all day, and all of them slept on my bed. I still have my very first Maltese, she is 15 now and still going strong. She produced 4 beautiful litters for me, containing 4, 4, 4 and 5 puppies, the pups all went to very grateful pet homes. Grateful to be able to buy quality pets from a reputable breeder. It saddens me enormously that some people in the the dog world can't embrace the thought of us breeding simply to produce pet puppies. There is such an enormous market for them, and by not meeting that demand, we have allowed the oodle farmers to pick up those sales." When did it become a problem that members who breed pets were discouraged? The ANKC historically IS a register for pure bred dogs.... not SHOW dogs only! The shift to exclusivity to if you do not show, your a puppy farmer. Has done nothing good for the purebred dog. It has been pet owners deciding they love their breed and become members and register a prefix which is what keeps the gene pool and the ANKC GOING. you only need to read the stats in the "Forensic view of Puppy Breeding In Australia 2017" then compare the continual falling figures from 1990's to today to reinforce the pure bred gene pool is reaching unsustainable level. The cause? the vilification of anyone who does not proudly state they only breed to show. put purebred puppies out of the reach of the people who historically were our future ANKC members and this is the inevitable result.... When will the ANKC WAKE up and address this? A dead end kennel is nothing to be proud of. But this is what is being touted as the epitome of ethical responsible? Toe the imaginary line or risk being attacked by a self appointed thought policer. Is it true that the British ANKC is classifying unregistered dogs for grading up to increase genetic diversity and numbers for failing breed numbers? I know this was done here for the Stumpy Tailed Cattledog. because the dead end kennel mentality had them down to only one registered breeder. If the members do not start addressing this who will? Just one example :- . 1988 -- 2,018 Maltese puppies registered.... 2019 -- 198 Maltese puppies registered Google ANKC National Registration Statistics, for your breed of interest. Considering the enormous population growth no wonder there is a huge growth in non ANKC people breeding to meet this market with subsequent loss of potential members. Let alone the gene pool lost. http://ankc.org.au/media/6598/a-forensic-view-of-puppy-breeding-in-australiav4.pdf or how many prefer the adopt dont shop? Wonder how long before if you want a dog you need to plan ahead to have your old dog cloned before its too late, like Barbara Streisand? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/style/barbra-streisand-cloned-her-dog.html wonder if the clone is from an ANKC purebred, if down the track we can just register the clones as well?

interesting, yet we are hearing the last thing you should do is breed now, especially never let anyone wanting a pup for company during covid19, they will just dump or neglect it once the lockdown's are over. why and when did dog people become so negatively judgemental and coat it as being ethical and responsible?

If you get the microchip number, you can ask your vet to check its age, as vets can access the chip information. including the name and address and phone number of the owners............as for having lost the paperwork no problem there, get a change of ownership form from your local council and when you meet them all they have to do is sign it as their signature and the chip number is all thats needed to transfer it

I have only ever asked for payment on proven conception. even if she does conceive and loses the pups then offer a free return . ditto for a small litter of one or two. but I know thats not standard procedure..

Crazy isnt it. I know when my friends began spouting we have to eliminate puppy farmers and backyard breeders from the ankc ranks. I could not get a single one of them to realise they themselves had backyards and fitted the very description of the people to be eliminated. When they began spouting we have to get rid of the unethical, irresponsible people, that they too could be targeted. that was in the 1985 or 6 I think, the time frame was that long ago, even then I saw it as whiteanting the members from within. sadly my fears were very on target weren't they. Perhaps because of my grandfather who was descended from people who fled the Spanish inquisitions where bother betrayed brother, made me see this as the beginning of another form of inquisition people sure dont learn from the horrors of history past do they? As well they whiteanted pet buyers trust in ankc breeders, they are constantly being told, go check the parents, the home, to ensure the breeder is not a puppy farmer, constant reminder to distrust and inspect and report the shonks.... They were too dumb to realise that the result is they had just taught the general public to distrust all ankc members as potential shonks. I did wonder where on earth this sudden hate talk come from. It was only a few years ago I learned the year PETA began and yep same slogans..........1982 the idiots had picked up on the slogans with no idea where they came from or the agenda attached......... embraced an agenda and self destruction, that PETA must be so happy with

Ah, yes the FENTON................................... moments. funny for some, but fatal for many. but the thought police dont care how many die exercising their rights to self expression catch 22 isnt it

Think you are correct. its been an exercise in blocking new members for over a decade now, the limit only breeders are the icing on the extinction cake. although giving some one the answers also educates them what really gets my goat is so may half witted vets today look at a puppy with some problem and they say with the utmost conviction. "its inbred" even when there isn't a common ancestor in generations. or in the case of many it isn't even a genetic cause? there is a reason women take folic acid and if they are low the birth defects caused by low folate are not genetic but try telling most of today's vets that? But it one of the major drivers of the push to crossbred's. Well remember Rob Zammit going on a program demonstrating all the defects on TV show, clearly visible in a crossbred because both unrelated breeds had all the same genetic faults so obviously "inbreeding" wasn't the problem. selecting for freedom from faults is the issue, but seems easier to take the easy "inbred" diagnosis

and it is a fact, to breed can be a risk, that's why so many dont stay breeders for long.. have to be very alert to your girl and head for the vet fast if anything seems amiss, even slightly.\ n thinking maybe my imagination? Better to be a too cautious than get there too late.

happening here too. someone posted on facebook last week asking everyone to keep a look out as their baby puppy they had put a deposit on had been stolen along with the entire litter and the mum

actually your right. all it does is confirm the kennel name and number existed if it worked. doesn't mean the person saying its their prefix and number actually is that person? so whats the point?

apparently until its fixed have to put both the prefix and the number. that's what was posted on face book anyway Just tried it, doesn't work even when you put one or both. Well that was a great idea.

From what I read, its $15 per pup for the initial logging in of the pups microchips recorded in the breeders name and then $7.50 for first transfer to the new owner. But for a one pup no discount for the transfer as they dont recognise that as a litter. so the income for a 2 pup "litter" is $45 and for a singleton they make $30. in the case of ten singleton "litters" thats $300 .. or for more accuracy 20 singleton pups (same number as ten two pup litters.) will cost their breeder $600, Compared to only $450 income for ten two pup (total 20 pup's) litters? Really Major saving for the big litter breeds. considering it is all done online by the mug breeder there is no staff input to either transaction

http://www.rasnsw.com.au/globalassets/document-library/aar/aar-breederform.pdf

very wise we made that mistake when we lost scamp. didnt realise we had chosen his image and poor Neiger didn't have a hope of living up to the dog we had lost he was the image of visually bot so utterly different .

Sadly the shortage of puppies has had another effect. a broken hearted puppy owner posted photos of their baby puppy with its mum. To report someone had broken into the breeders home and taken not only mum and the whole litter. but the other female as well. The only dog left behind was the sire of the litter. the pups were not even 6 weeks old so neither microchipped or vaccinated. They asked everyone to share hoping someone might sight the missing mum and the puppies. I would gladly post the photos. but the one thing I hate about faceplant is the incredible difficulty of finding a post if it gets lost. I clicked share and instead it dissappeared, so must have clicked the wrong side of the mouse and no matter how hard I just cant find it again. They were red, quite a dark red, not sure if cocker spaniel but think they were. wasn't show groomed so not positive which spaniel breed. lost it before could get a better look so be careful if you have puppies. I do not have any puppies advertised for sale but am getting from three to five phone calls a day from people who have either had one of mine in the past or met someone with one who gave them my number. I am amazed how many people are looking for a pup.

the reply was not to the oriigional post it was to 3 litter comment in case it needs explanation again. I do understand your frustration . people who dont nod and agree are not welcome here. look at the bright side, been silent on the subject for the previous 20 years was just sent a photo of Lace, Dancer and Stringy by a friend., strings on the right