asal

mine aren't a popular breed so you just never know I was scanning the net for a friend who wanted one a few months ago and checked all sites, realised one add had the same photos as a breeder on another site, except one had 3 photos and the other half a dozen of mum dad and the pups from all different angles. figured the one with so many would be the real owner and sent them the link to the other one with different prefix and contact no and suggested they call the police. happened to me some 9 years ago and they caught the offender who was in another state and apparently had fleeced something like $6,000 from unsuspecting people before she was caught and charged

I think names should be removed, un less you have permission to share them . good point, thanks

or is this a subject not for discussion and I should delete ASAP?

might even lead to less pillaring of breeders if this was understood better, or is that daydreaming? photo. https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xal1/v/t1.0-9/11223814_1174068439274649_1735211167372470899_n.jpg?oh=49f411c5995e7bd4b14a5ae81f09c832&oe=5806569C&__gda__=1476025776_efc303965b18d92aeebae8db1bd2ddf9 25 September 2015 There was a farmer who grew excellent quality corn. Every year he won the award for the best grown corn. One year a newspaper reporter interviewed him and learned something interesting about how he grew it. The reporter discovered that the farmer shared his seed corn with his neighbors. “How can you afford to share your best seed corn with your neighbors when they are entering corn in competition with yours each year?” the reporter asked. “Why sir,” said the farmer, “Didn’t you know? The wind picks up pollen from the ripening corn and swirls it from field to field. If my neighbors grow inferior corn, cross-pollination will steadily degrade the quality of my corn. If I am to grow good corn, I must help my neighbors grow good corn.” So is with our lives... Those who want to live meaningfully and well must help enrich the lives of others, for the value of a life is measured by the lives it touches. And those who choose to be happy must help others find happiness, for the welfare of each is bound up with the welfare of all... -Call it power of collectivity... -Call it a principle of success... -Call it a law of life. The fact is, none of us truly wins, until we all win!! Like Comment Comments We need more farming around Mount Garnet Area. Like · Reply · 13 June at 09:12 That's great quality control! Like · Reply · 1 · 13 June at 09:22 I wish Baxter and Marsh in Kojonup could get hold of this. Like · Reply · 1 · 13 June at 10:05 This is outstandingly good. · 13 June at 10:29 exactly why breeders should work together and share but most of todays dog breeders have lost the plot Like · Reply · 1 · 13 June at 12:50 That's how inbreeding happens. All the families of the world's ruling elite are inbred, and that is their greatest weakness. If we are to defeat them, we have to learn to co-operate. Like · Reply · 13 June at 17:23 Inbreeding has crippled our dog breeds... and our registered heavy horses. Like · Reply · 17 hrs thats the easy catchphrase. I know the majority of breeders NEVER inbreed. Yet constant outcross kennels have produced more rubbish and deformaties than I ever saw at P B E.....a Kennels. she did was the old time legendary breeders did, crosses mother to son and father to daughter and only kept the stock that didnt produce faults.line and inbreeding used properly finds the animals carrying faults and then can be eliminated from the gene pool. dominate genes show with just one pattern. recessives are hidden unless the youngster gets a copy from each parent. you cant get two defective copies if you had already screened at least one parent by in or line breeding it first to ensure it doesnt carry hidden defects. in or line breeding has been used for dna tested across the entire gentetic spectrum for thousands of years before dna tests arrived on the scene only a few years ago. they test for a few dozen of the tens of thousands that are sitting waiting to say SUPRISE ! you can inbreed or line breed and a faulty gene cant show if it wasnt there in the first place. you can constantly outcross and still get disasters and its not because it was inbred, it was because both parents have a gene thats been there for generations and no one knew. but hey why learn genetics when its easier to say hey some mongred has inbred Like · Reply · 10 hrs then there are the faulty genes that just mutated at conception. not anything to do with inbreeding. neither parent had a faulty gene. google down syndrome for starters, its not restricted to humans , my sister gave me a medical book listing and photos of just a few hundred abnormalities that occur at conception babies with xxx, yxx yyx and that's just the mix-ups that can occurr on the sex chromosomes... and photos of the poor babies born. happens in humans and animals and not an inbred parent in sight. not a book to read before or during pregnancy Like · Reply · 10 hrs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome XYY syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 10 hrs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome XYY syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 10 hrs http://www.rarechromo.org/.../Chro.../Tetrasomy_X%20FTNW.pdf Like · Reply · 10 hrs what crippled our dog breeds is breeding to exagerate features to the degree that the result either has no face to breathe normally, a mouth big enough for its tongue to fit inside. eyes so big they can fall out, lids can hardly cover to keep dirt and dust out of them, skin so loose the eyelids droop so low they only function seems to be as dirt catchers? or the other extreme skull so short or so long and narrow there's hardly room for the brain. just look at what sooo many breeds looked like, some as little as 50 years ago and what is to me laughingly described as the "improved" version. to my eye its the destroyed version. to achieve it they inbred and line bred all right but nothing to do with genetically related parents they put shorter face to shorter face till there is no face. and ditto for every other feature it was decided to exaggerate to the point of destruction of comfort, health ...u name it Like · Reply · 1 · 10 hrs · Edited look at the halter quarter horse? hocks so straight they have bog and bone spavin before they are in their teens let alone arthritis. feet too small to carry the massive weight above them, so if arthritis doesn't get them navicular will Like · Reply · 1 · 10 hrs · Edited Your points are excellent Sy. I was referring to registered clydesdales who are now very light in the bone as there are so few clydesdales left in Australia that the available gene pool has shrunk. Like · Reply · 4 hrs

There is a family of kelpies near Penrith used to win most of the high jumps year in year out hvnt been to the shows for while . its a really fun event

what astonishes me is if you had a child would you leave it alone with things it can destroy? why do it with a dog? set aside an area for her with access only things she can have,not run of the whole place and I know a friend whose dog hated being left alone, although in the case of yours she isnt alone she has the other dog. my friend bought those treatballs and put bits of food in them and she spent hours winkling them out.

She didnt know there were 4 dead dogs on her property - Id love to know what reason she comes up with to get out of that one. I saw an interview with the unnamed unidentified neighbour and if I heard correctly the dead ones were there not the chi breeder and one of the dead was not known to the property owner , had no idea where it came from and not of the breeds either had? stray? too little information and much what we have been told is distorted, dangerous trying to make assumptions with so much shaky info to go on

The page is no longer showing up. The club is not at all happy. It might also pay for everyone to remember Ms Healey is not the only person involved. 2 properties were raided, at least 2 women involved. I think it sounds better for the press release to have a nice BIG round figure, if the truth isnt even in that what else is distorted? the video I saw was chi's on paper with some 3 or 4 pieces of dog do which could have been done just before the video was filmed? not a sign of the heaps of feces reported and the matted dogs belonged to the other breeder who is not named and shamed? CORRECTION, I rewatched the video and what I did see was black dots on the base of a food bowl not a dog too in sight in every shot? every dog in screen was in excellent condition. shocking as the in little pens looks, many breeders have these pens in the home and they spend the night in them and let out to play in the yard. we really dont know the truth of the matter from whats on those links

Good question but its going to take an essay to address all of the issues and variables I've got a meeting tonight but will come back. short answer is any breeder with 10 to 16 a litter breeds can achieve 100 easily. with a nice representative group to select from for the next generation if its a toy breed many so called litters contain 1 to 2 pups thats a pretty sparse number of pups to select from as any genetic tome will tell you to get a mininum chance of genetic variation to select from one set of parents you need a MINIMUM of 16 offspring but hey who wants to learn about genetics dogs these days are fur children so be happy with the child you get even it its a down syndrome affected puppy, (http://dogsaholic.com/care/dog-with-down-syndrome.html) well if you bred it, if you buy it it has to be perfect with a lifetime guarantee or the breeder isn't 'ethical' I have bad news for the all things bright and beautiful brigade, genes, dna and reproduction glitces aren't ethical, they don't even care about the breeders reputation or the affected youngster either so many such problems are no fault of the breeder or even the parents, but hey who wants to know the truth Although one truth the ANKC is responsible for. as the article states "Geneticists, scientists who study genes, do know what causes nondisjunction; however, they have found a common link between the age of the mother and the frequency of cases. Basically, the older a mother is, the more likely she is to give birth to a child with Down." The actions of the ANKC's to pandering to the Peta and animal rights brigade along with the fur kid brigade brought in the one litter per year rule to "stop puppy farming" by registered breeders. ask any vet who has been in practice over 30 years (not the PETA brainwashed coming out of the vet schools since) dogs (women included too) gynecologists too will tell you (there's reams of research available out there) are least likely to have reproduction problems or genetic abnormalities in their offspring as young mums . Aging genes means increased pregnancy and genetic problems. before litters were bred before the mum turned 4 or 5 ad pensioned off as a young dog.

goodness, here is one clipped out as a bedlington terrier https://www.google.com.au/search?q=lamb+clip+poodle&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=fDTBIqjpBFoQpM%253A%253B3ngORkKqaTb6oM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ffancypawsgrooming.angelfire.com%25252Fphotos%25252Findex.album%25252Fminiature-poodle%25253Fi%2525253D3&source=iu&pf=m&fir=fDTBIqjpBFoQpM%253A%252C3ngORkKqaTb6oM%252C_&usg=__5cYhjJBxnaTHZbgaAD4kbSWfA1Q%3D&biw=1920&bih=971&ved=0ahUKEwijnb6N0YrNAhVHW5QKHRQZBpgQyjcINQ&ei=qdNQV-OkCMe20QSUspjACQ#imgrc=L8bWEgUgemiHnM%3A or even a Schnauzer clip possibilities are endless https://www.google.com.au/search?q=lamb+clip+poodle&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=fDTBIqjpBFoQpM%253A%253B3ngORkKqaTb6oM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ffancypawsgrooming.angelfire.com%25252Fphotos%25252Findex.album%25252Fminiature-poodle%25253Fi%2525253D3&source=iu&pf=m&fir=fDTBIqjpBFoQpM%253A%252C3ngORkKqaTb6oM%252C_&usg=__5cYhjJBxnaTHZbgaAD4kbSWfA1Q%3D&biw=1920&bih=971&ved=0ahUKEwijnb6N0YrNAhVHW5QKHRQZBpgQyjcINQ&ei=qdNQV-OkCMe20QSUspjACQ#imgrc=WTXwlhgwpNgUSM%3A

for the reasons you put, clean, no odour or shedding, as for trainability your first choice was the right one, look up lamb clips on these photos, dont need pom poms on head or tail check out these options https://www.google.com.au/search?q=lamb+clip+poodle&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&imgil=fDTBIqjpBFoQpM%253A%253B3ngORkKqaTb6oM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ffancypawsgrooming.angelfire.com%25252Fphotos%25252Findex.album%25252Fminiature-poodle%25253Fi%2525253D3&source=iu&pf=m&fir=fDTBIqjpBFoQpM%253A%252C3ngORkKqaTb6oM%252C_&usg=__5cYhjJBxnaTHZbgaAD4kbSWfA1Q%3D&biw=1920&bih=971&ved=0ahUKEwijnb6N0YrNAhVHW5QKHRQZBpgQyjcINQ&ei=qdNQV-OkCMe20QSUspjACQ#imgrc=wpH9Y2A-ttboGM%3A

:) same here

^^ this There are consequences if my dogs behave badly. e.g. if they wouldn't stop jumping up at visitors they would either go outside or in a crate. But is this punishment? yes me too, too little depth to the questions for valid interpretation I would think? But then I suppose it depends on what their looking for

yip. Whether or not the pup was sold for breeding is also beside the point. If the bite is so bad that the teeth piece the roof of the mouth then then the pup was not fit for sale. Of course it was fit for sale. Would you knock it on the head? What should have happened is that the issue with the mouth should have been advised. No it wasn't. If the puppy needs surgery to be comfortable as is the case here, it should not have been sold. It should have been either kept by the breeder to see if it improves, had surgery to remove the canines and sold with full disclosure, or discounted and sold with full disclosure. exactly, full disclosure, the buyer decides if they want it or not

Sorry disagree you with you. Do not tar us all with the one brush. The majority of us are ethical registered breeders and would not do a thing like this. But as to purchasing sight unseen, so many of us do send quality pups to purchasers without the slightest hitch. As to seeing both parents sometimes that is an impossibility when we use interstate sires or frozen semen from overseas. :) Agree with you, Ive been a registered breeder since 1978 and would never do such a thing. I only know of one breeder who did that to someone interstate and their name is mud now. I received a call from interstate yesterday wanting a puppy, they saw one that someone else had bought last year and want one just like it and had asked for the breeders details. the best advertising you can get. So sad for the op Head straight to consumer affairs and the controlling body the breeder belongs to and raise cain, the breeder has breeched the code of ethics as others have said

The decision to become a breeder is not something you do lightly to my mind. You are required to educate yourself and that education includes the basic requirement of understanding the process of the application….Not sure what the point is…..I assume it’s too hard to do that for some. Hope I am not coming across too abrupt but that's the way I see it......not very good on tact.... its not something i looked into , just what I was told. as for the one who paid up for associate sounds like misunderstanding both sides of the counter. staff asked if they intended to breed or show. the inquirer knew couldn't breed until eligible for a prefix so said show. and was told associate was all that was needed and didn't say wanted to apply for one when eligible

willem suggested this belongs here Re the difficulties to become an ANKC breeder ....I know how many once I explain the waiting time chuck it in to the too hard basket. one has three outstanding dogs and to my knowledge became a member 2 years ago so happily went in to apply for a prefix, except turns out when applied for membership was told if your only showing you only need to be an associate member. guess what, 2 years as an associate member doesnt count, have to be a full member for 18 months. and yes has given up. so 3 lovely dogs lost to be breed and one once enthusiastic potential addition to the rapidly thinning ranks

AS for the oft repeated to be ethical you shouldn't breed and price to make a profit? how many of the people who want a puppy will work for nothing? Where are they going to get the money to buy a puppy if they too work for free or at a loss? let alone pay for its food and vet bill. as well as food for themselves? Many years ago the ANKC did a survey and discovered the majority of new members remained members 5 years or less.the majority of members were pensioners, they cant afford to breed if they cant make enough to buy feed for themselves and their dogs, pensions don't stretch very far. The dairy farmers would have to be the most ethical in australia at the moment. they are not only working for nothing, they lose money for every litre they milk because they are getting less thanit costs to produce it. 6,000 cattle went to the sales last week 77% of them dairy cows their owners cant afford to feed. That is where ethical gets anyone if profit is unethical your only allowed one litter per year, two in a row but cant breed another for minimum 12 months or is it longer now? either way that means a chi that has 1 pup per "litter' can only produce about 5 to six pups in her breeding life. Lucky for me I managed a 7th before she was too old and finally had the long awaited bitch pup. so 7 litters for a great dane and 70 odd pups to choose from. no wonder the toy breeds numbers bred are falling though the floor in the bad old days a bitch had her 4 or five litters to select from before she was 4 or 5. many had their replacement daughter and were pet homed by 3 1/2 to 4 and there was great demand for then as they still had a long life as a pet ahead of them. now if you had bad luck until the 7th try, (pretty sure now you cant have a 7th try anymore)they are too old to rehome but keep too many to live out their lives with you is going to get you branded as a "collector/hoarder" last I heard they are pushing for legislation to have the threshold changed from 10 to 5 and any over that can be seized so not too many oldies will shove u over the limit fast. lets not forget now a newbie even if they find a main register pup or even worse a main register adult cannot apply for a prefix until they have been a member for 18 months. How many are going to wait 18 months without throwing in the towel and become a backyard breeder instead. Whatever happened to welcoming, educating and mentoring newbies instead of setting up an obstacle course to weed out the impatient? I know how many once I explain the waiting time chuck it in to the too hard basket. one has three outstanding dogs and to my knowledge became a member 2 years ago so happily went in to apply for a prefix, except turns out when applied for membership was told if your only showing you only need to be an associate member. guess what, 2 years as an associate member doesnt count, have to be a full member for 18 months. and yes has given up. so 3 lovely dogs lost to be breed and one once enthusiastic potential addition to the rapidly thinning ranks

I agree - its supply and demand. People want them so if the registered breeders dont want to rise to the occasion someone will take up the option. In fact why dont registered breeders who have the best for the breed at heart increase their production a bit to get in on the action ? They dont have to do it solely for the pet market but can also have more choices for the show ring and the gene pool. In some apartment buildings you can only have a dog where you can carry it off and on the premises so demand for small dogs suitable for small spaces that can be carried will be more in demand anyway. By the way they dont have anywhere near the problems that many brachy head breeds have - yet. dont know if its true but a lady whose puppies i chip said there are moves afoot to bring in a maximum number of litters bred per year any one breeder is allowed (to discourage puppy farm members) and after that is reached no puppies over the limit can be registered . Cant remember if she said there would be fines or membership suspended. but as it is many members keep a check on fellow breeders and any they dont like make complaints to the animal welfare groups to harass and hopefully drive them out, been done for decades. so little incentive to increase production, to be "ethical"and stay under the radar for elimination, stick to producing a litter for a keep puppy and surplus in the litter limit registerd only. Just read the adds here. its not impossible down the track if someone wants a dog if the animals rights group continue to succeed in branding all who dont keep what they bred as "puppy farmers" some will find it so hard to find a puppy they will turn to the cloning companies for their pet to be cloned instead? Sci-fi? time will tell the crash is already documented. just check the ANKC registrations dating back to the 80's our population increases, puppies bred steady decline ANKC trying to distance themselves from what happens out side their membership and the accusations of 'being in it for the money' brought in the rule that "No breeder shall breed primarily for profit". A mistake I believe, since in a market driven world those who can earn biggest profits are those who best meet demands. But now those who earn biggest profits are open to the sort of harassment you mention. The K.Cs are not designed to meet the needs of their environment, but to remain distinctly separate. This rule is a reflection of that and came about because of that. A reaction typical to a biological organism that does not recognize its environment. If the environment for dogs was considered as the single environment it is, that accusation would have likely been taken as a more general one, with a different response aimed more at demonstrating/educating the benefits of NOT buying from a breeder whos primary goal is profit. And not opened the gates to breeders whos ONLY concern is meeting demand, for profit. curious isnt it. like your comment " A reaction typical to a biological organism that does not recognize its environment." in this instance the "organism" seems intent on self destruction, once continually reducing numbers reach critical figures extinction is inevitable

I agree - its supply and demand. People want them so if the registered breeders dont want to rise to the occasion someone will take up the option. In fact why dont registered breeders who have the best for the breed at heart increase their production a bit to get in on the action ? They dont have to do it solely for the pet market but can also have more choices for the show ring and the gene pool. In some apartment buildings you can only have a dog where you can carry it off and on the premises so demand for small dogs suitable for small spaces that can be carried will be more in demand anyway. By the way they dont have anywhere near the problems that many brachy head breeds have - yet. dont know if its true but a lady whose puppies i chip said there are moves afoot to bring in a maximum number of litters bred per year any one breeder is allowed (to discourage puppy farm members) and after that is reached no puppies over the limit can be registered . Cant remember if she said there would be fines or membership suspended. but as it is many members keep a check on fellow breeders and any they dont like make complaints to the animal welfare groups to harass and hopefully drive them out, been done for decades. so little incentive to increase production, to be "ethical"and stay under the radar for elimination, stick to producing a litter for a keep puppy and surplus in the litter limit registerd only. Just read the adds here. its not impossible down the track if someone wants a dog if the animals rights group continue to succeed in branding all who dont keep what they bred as "puppy farmers" some will find it so hard to find a puppy they will turn to the cloning companies for their pet to be cloned instead? Sci-fi? time will tell the crash is already documented. just check the ANKC registrations dating back to the 80's our population increases, puppies bred steady decline

But we already have legislation around lots of things (microchipping, breeders permits, registration, age of sale) and it isn't fixing the issues because it isn't enforced. More unenforced legislation won't change anything either. Education and changing the attitudes and will of the majority works two fold - 1. in changing people's behaviours; and 2. in changing political will and pressure on governments to spend resources on enforcing the legislation we already have. Those two things are what changed things with regard to slavery and the rights of women, and are why rates of things like drink driving and smoking rates, and racism, actually have reduced, not just a dictatorial government putting in new legislation without the will of the majority behind it. Your mistaken, it is in force. the problem is the target is the only tracable people,registered breeders. Its been very successful less and less bred every year. get rid of the real supply and don't think you can find a puppy from a registered breeder. there aren't enough bred Australia wide to supply even one state.

That's a fair point. An example recently for me personally was an ad on Dogzonline and said "As an ethical responsible breeder all puppies leave here desexed"... Personally I wouldn't hold that as the most ethical due to those hormones being good for growth, but unfortunately the world we live in means that everyone else has to pick up after those who can't be responsible for their dogs & get them desexed/manage them entire. So true, was reading adds recently for a friend who wants a french bulldog, some adds had "ethical" repeated add nausium, yet the vast majority were advertising either blue or chocolate or carriers at additional price some even asking $15,000 for these 'rare' colours. cough, banned according to the breed standard. to me 'ethical' is a word everyone seems to need to feel they have tightly wrapped around themselves as you would a cloak of respectability. as a rather famous professor used to say, "WHY! is it so?" Because today, thanks to the vilification of dog breeders, ANYONE who has bred a litter of puppies can discover they will be viewed by a significant proportion of the population as having put their fur child in the family way and now. Horror of horrors, selling their fur grandchildren, for MONEY? How could you DO such a thing? in the olden days, a person became a registered breeder to continue the generations of the breeder before them, to pass on suitable pups to the next generation of breeders to secure the future of their breed. not today. try and find a breeder who doesn't proudly flaunt one of the proofs of their "ethical" standing by clearly advising "all puppies will come with limit registration" as I read these my mind substitutes their coveted "ethical breeder" status for "dead end breeder". As for the increasing use of 'fur kids' don't like it (much as we love our dogs, they are DOGS, they are not children, they think like dogs they act like dogs and when you forget that tragedies happen as seen in off leash parks and the home) eg a FB forum member wailed, her last rescue puppy, now 18 months old had just torn apart her beloved 5 year old it was growing up with. WHY? did this happen. another very long time friend woke up one morning and shocked to discover her sons 2 yr old kelpie dead on one side of the room and her geriatric Labrador asleep beside her bed. She never woke up during what was obviously a deadly disagreement.

misunderstood you, sorry. no matter how much of a nanny state they want to make Australia, they fail to understand or don't want too. if not even children are safe from being dumped, abused or killed. its pretty stupid to think they can do better re dog and cat welfare.

exactly. as for the comparison to putting a seat belt on by the spotted devil? for starters no one has to feed,vaccinate or flea a seat belt yet many dont do them up

I understand that going through this is a terrifying experience (I followed your thread about Amber) - however I don't believe that dealing with cancer is more pleasant. Here a study that shows some interesting figures about mortality for pyometra: http://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1746-6148-10-6...interestingly, the mortality for the medical treated ones was 0%!...the surgical treated ones (OHE) was only 1%. The overall mortality considering also euthanized dogs (due to various reasons) was 10%. Compare these figures with the survival rate of dogs with cancer due to de-sexing http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0055937: quote: ...For females, the timing of neutering is more problematical because early neutering significantly increases the incidence rate of CCL from near zero to almost 8 percent, and late neutering increases the rates of HSA to 4 times that of the 1.6 percent rate for intact females and to 5.7 percent for MCT, which was not diagnosed in intact females. ...from zero to 5.7% for MCT!!!...plus all the other side effects. Based on these figures pyo seems to be the less dangerous evil... I dont desex, but then mine have dog proof fences so no accidents. in 40 years and being a breeder 3 to 8 bitches at any given time, from retired to puppies had one case of pymetra and one breast cancer in one teat, both removed and no further complications. other friends seem to have similar,others not as lucky. ditto results with friends with desexed pets.life tends to be a lottery for us and our pets http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/your-dog-needs-to-be-spayed-or-neutered-right/ ....more scare-mongering pseudoscience ...but hold on, so many studies coming to the same conclusion love this bit "Another danger is male aggression, though this is largely a cat issue, and in my experience much less likely in intact male dogs. Tom cats are prone to getting into serious fights when they are intact, and this can make for wounds, abscesses, and disease transmission, if they are wounded by a cat carrying FeLV, for example." our vet never told sylvester he was now a neuter. for the next 17 years he street fought his way to top cat on the block pile, with an array of expensive injuries to prove it. the other chap always came out worse, even the doberman who offended him once. one time I asked his vet to issue a desexed certificate we could show him to prove hes NOT a tom anymore. so whats up on the vets wall next visit? "warning, 11 % of desexed males wont know their desexed" thought it was funny at the time, but wait till the day that cute colt you had gelded grows up thinking hes a stallion AND YOU KNOW hes got no nuts, you saw the vet remove em...........GRRRRR! I found the comments about ADD very interesting too (the other stuff wasn't new for me), here the link (the link in the article seems to be broken): http://www.atftc.com/health/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf quote: Summary The above data is just a small sample of the significant data that were determined in this study. By using large a sample of dogs than any used previously to examine behavior in dogs, we found significant correlations between neutering dogs and increases in aggression, fear and anxiety, and excitability, regardless of the age at which the dog was neutered. There were also significant correlations between neutering and decreases in trainability and responsiveness to cues . The other three behavioral categories examined (miscellaneous behavior problems, attachment and attentionseeking behavior, and separation-related behavior) showed some association with neutering, but these differed more substantially depending on the age at which the dog was neutered. The overall trend seen in all these behavioral data was that the earlier the dog was neutered, the more negative the effect on the behavior. A difference in bone length was found between neutered and intact dogs, suggesting that neutering has an effect on bone growth, which may be related to other orthopedic effects documented in the literature. Examination of changes in bone length of gonadectomized dogs is continuing. no idea where to find it now but in the 70's there was an experiment and colt foals were castrated at 3 months. other sibling colts left entire and compared when adult (around 5 to 7 years old) it was discovered the early gelded foals had developed longer limbs and the skeleton including pelvis was indistinguishable from that of a mare. the uncastratd colts growth plates closed at a younger age as puberty kicked in and were therefore shorter in height with bulkier appearance