asal

i sincerly hope you are right. think i lost hope of sanity prevailing anywhere governement and laws are involved upon learning what happend to Judy Guard, and the law is still not even being considered for review. instead concerns dismissed and more listed for adding as i said. i soo so hope you are right

I recall reading one post a little while back where the breeder gave a month's worth of pet insurance to each puppy buyer. That was an interesting idea. A lifetime's liability (and maybe I'm reading Shortstep wrong here) seems inherently flawed given that so many issues are late onset or have unknown causes. yes Petplan is 6 weeks insurance from puppy pickup, dont know if there are others. trouble is breeders take their babies to their vet for their first vaccinations and checks for teeth placement, hearts, eyes, hernias , patellas, testes etc and an all clear puppy is music to your ears. BUT, even the next vet check can be different, yet its the puppy breeder wears the unethical hat if its next check is different, not the vet who the breeder had it checked by, nor the judge to passed an 8 week puppy with perfect teeth placement and two testes, even at 12 weeks and or 18 weeks. ive seen it. everything fine then disaster. adult teeth dont come in scissor bite,. breeders unethical in the case of one pup. two teste at 6 weeks 12 weeks and 18 weeks. six months old and ones dissappeared who do you denigrate... the unethical breeder of course. in the case of patellas, cleared by the vet, parents grandparents and puppy. checked by the new owners vets at second and third vaccination all clear. then 9 or ten months old and oopss one going wobbly.. who's the one thats deliberately sold them a dud? do i really need to tell you? of course that unethical breeder. who cares the mug has relied on the very vets who now point the bone straight at ?????????? yet the vets dont say. sorry i was wrong do they? i have great fun with my dogs, dogs are great. but. its just too risky letting a puppy go to a new home anymore. my friend even gave one away as she had an allergic reaction to her vaccination and feared she may be ill again when the boosters have to be done. so what happened? vaccinations fine. BUT six months down the track and get a phone call. my vets said this pup needs a $3,000 op and as the breeder the bills comming to you, hysterical was she? you bet. told her, you have the right to a second opinion. what does her vet find? puppy weighted more than its 5 year old mum already and had fractured both elbows jumping from a verandah. i was only saying to a friend, most of the ops vets decide to do on puppies these days.. once upon a time a luxating dog luxated all its life without surgery now its just about standard procedure it seems from some i have heard from, and no they gave up breeding. simply couldnt see the point in selling a pup for 1,000 and refunding 3,000 for the ops the vet said to be done. soo i wondered, what about paying the first years insurance, its not like things like that happen very often? to be told...but.. the cost of the policy from the price of the pup wont cover breeding and raising it and the buyers sure wont pay the extra..... sooo wheres the comprimise? im stumped to find a posative think the pearler for me was a once long time friend was given two puppies a year apart . 6 n 7 years old down the track get a phone call... "vets doing luxating ops on both of them today and ive told them to send you the bill... just thought to call you so you know its comming and can be ready with the money" sweet. no the bill didnt arrive, her vet when he got the message from the secretary called her and told her there has been not a thing wrong with these dogs since you got them. what have you done different at home to cause this? turned out they had bought a new bed and the dogs were now jumping three feet to get back to the floor in the morning. never met that vet but i adore him. will or did she ever get another from me? not on your nelly

yes i am getting phone calls asking if a puppy comes with a lifetime health guarantee. so "demanding lifetime liability for every pup breed" is looking like the next step. reality? not where im standing. as i asked one man. can you give your own children a lifetime health guarantee????????????????????? bit rich asking it of a dog, or any other species breeder. reality check folks. there aint a critter born with a use by date on the packaging. maybe down the track its comming. but not in our lifetime, if man hasnt extincted himself first my advice? go buy from the mug who is offering the impossible before they discover they are not dealing with whitegoods yet! am i going to continue breeding dogs? no way, no how. im bailing out before the boat sinks completly.

that i suspect should be first priority dont you think?

i know for example the apple dome so loved by chi breeders is certainly a lot bigger apple than ever on the original dogs and been increased over the decades along with the molera, and as a result a percentage of puppies never make it to even their first vaccinations. although in that case its never an issue for a puppy buyer because they simply dont survive. but i know id love it gone from the breed so i dont have to see a puppy born with no skull. no molera in the parents is first on my wish list. moderation in all, to me is good, muzzle not too short, dome medium not extreme. trouble is that makes u open to being branded as not breeding to show win and by default......get the drift Hold that thought Asal - its important we look at that in the thread on these issues. hey could you file it somewhere now? i wont be forum checking again for a while as heaps to do. well i wont if i can switch this darned thing off and get cracking

dont know if it might mollify em put this last post on the offending forum " promise to take bat n ball n leave u in peace. may some think is worth working for anyway wonder if anything judy guard says now shes been rolled too will mean she too is now a member of the hysterical group? cheers"

And that's the sort of crap that your average puppy buyer doesnt want to be bogged down by. We dont care. Just sell us a nice puppy and keep all of that infighting to yourselves. Fight amongst yourselves about health testing etc - the average Joe on the street doesnt want to buy into that. We want a puppy and a nice, rational breeder. Nothing else. We dont want your first born child, a lifetime guarantee against a possible health problem, title deeds to your house. Keep it simple. and that is exactly why ive sat on my hands for 30 years, no one wants to know or talk about it. i looked, i saw, i decided which road i would walk. trouble is with the dog world, the ethicals notice, your not walking to their drum nor can stand by and let you go your own way , and to them its the my way or the highway. thats why the stringy incident happened anyway despite keeping my reasons to myself. the dust is still under the carpet

i know for example the apple dome so loved by chi breeders is certainly a lot bigger apple than ever on the original dogs and been increased over the decades along with the molera, and as a result a percentage of puppies never make it to even their first vaccinations. although in that case its never an issue for a puppy buyer because they simply dont survive. but i know id love it gone from the breed so i dont have to see a puppy born with no skull. no molera in the parents is first on my wish list. moderation in all, to me is good, muzzle not too short, dome medium not extreme. trouble is that makes u open to being branded as not breeding to show win and by default......get the drift

my poodle would bite if he thought my brothers were hurting me. why have him PTS? they are the ones who tormented him by hitting me just to enjoy his distress when he thought they were hurting me? actually his protectiveness came in handy when the kids of one of my mums friends came to visit, they would thieve anything not nailed down when at our house. i would put him on his leash at the beginning of the hallway knowing they couldnt get past him without me or mum hearing him go of his head barking at them if they tried to get past him, to enter our rooms (none of our doors had locks) id have an area that all hers when visitors come. be it a room or a pen and lockable. its not as if she needs to be locked up 24/7 normally. whenever they have friends over isnt going to be such a big deal surely? this stuff unless doggies perfect its a "danger" to the world is a bit over the top isnt it?

bit of a worry, wonder if that will be the next new law to come in? banning that? prostituting a fur kid?

maybe i shouldnt have replied, in my heart this is a person who sees what they want to see, not what u say, below is the reply i put, but should i just give up and delet it? may i use the word "cretin" there is a solution. the accountablilty drive is the solution. legislation must be enacted to make the perperatators accountable the victums a place of appeal just like every other law enforment institution. its called democracy, and its dying in its arse because of things like you just said put it to bed? yep. wait till the likes of redhead looks in your direction and your screaming soundlessly for someone,,,,,anyone to intercede in your behalf. until this becomes law you too can end up, guilty without trial as stated by someone on dogzonline. this is how hitler little by little and bit by bit slid the german nation into the nighmare no one wants to believe could happen. democracy died. should we all standy by and let it continue here? the law that ensared Judy guard should never have been passed. You can show a debarked dog. its not illegal if is debarked in vic i born in vic, but this iditic law passed by cretins makes it illegal if it was done anywhere else but victoria that is insanity surely maybe electing politians who dont bother or worry that a law is unjust or unequal isnt the problem of the voting public. maybe like the pope they are infalible and we should accept without question when the greater good is more important than any mere collateral damage that does occur? somehow the guy who served the 12 years for the murder he didnt commit might not feel his collateral damage was for the greater good, n didnt i read somewhere is being compensated to the tune of hundreds if not million compensation? at least the animal legislation prevents any such compensation payouts as unlike the innocent murderer there is no avenue of appeal.

you raised a good point, what really frustrates me is the assumption that for example blue gene alopecia for example = skin allergies, automatically? alopecia means...............hairless every man who has gone bald has..................... alopecia i have had three dogs with blue gene alopecia. none, not one, of them, ever developed any allergies whatsoever. they were long coat dogs with short soft coat along their back and speed stripe down the top of the tail. gee they clip bedlington terriors because nature doesnt get the top short enough, still feathered underneath the tail. they may not be able to be shown, but health wise, fine healty doggies. the stringy incident proved that totaly beyond doubt for example even if it cost me bulk monetary and emotional wise. allergy is a different ball game.

in a attempt to help get the word out i cross posted it to a number of forums i know this reply i think takes the cake. this is the mentality we are up against, dog help us "This issue frustrates the heck out of me... And the solution is what??? Could I suggest personal responsibility? Sandy I know you aren't listening because when you get on your evangelical "trips" you can't comprehend that screaming about the problem is all well and good, but not having a solution means nothing is ever going to change. You continually ignore the fact that if it wasn't for the puppy farms, if it wasn't for irresponsible horse owners starving or neglecting their horses we wouldn't need an RSPCA. It's reason for existence, and its ability to abuse its power WOULDN'T EXIST! Frankly I'm tired of this... move on please. Problems without solutions are just a waste of time & life is too short... It is so negative- how about discussing the positive things going on? Like the way in which the AHSA is dealing with genetic defects? You know... things like SCID & LFS & CA... now these are problems that people have developed or are developing solutions for. These are animal welfare issues too... and it is great that it is the breed sorting out its own problems. Now that IS an issue. Regards," sort of makes me wonder if he even read what you are asking for doesnt it? also many have commented the link to your peitions not opening, http://www.mdba.net.au/index.php?option=co...n&Itemid=58

well done steve. bravo.

someone else made the comparison in a thread, forget which one about little by little before anyone realised democracy was gone. in the case of the rspca, theres precious little democracy, until and unless the petition gets going and succes in the accountability drive, we cant wait and hope for the politicans to figure it out for themselves. they are the cretins that made judys nightmare possible and then reality. surely they are elected to use their brains not take orders from the rspca or explore what it actually means in regard to potential victums like judy? surely. why should a dog born n debarked in vic can be shown no problem yet done elsewhere is a crimal offence? didnt the dual rail system debacle lesson get learned after all?

Well that begs the question - why arent the breeders out there for the breeders. How long do they have to wait before they work out that their CCs are not going to do it for them and do something ? I find this completely ironic. Not that long ago, there were a number of DOLers who wanted to do something for purebreds - promotions at shows, brochures, etc - and it died a death because the majority of breeders on this forum dismissed it as unnecessary. yes i get quite confused as there are a few double standards/mixed messages from breeders No. I see no point in breeders being keen to see a hastily organised 'promotion' of purebreed dogs to go ahead when many good breeders cannot currently fill demand for their pups. And it certainly wouldn't do anything positive to address this topic "How do we counteract the bad press for purebred dogs?" A tent full of people at the Royal show shows self interest, it doesn't counteract bad press. Yes. But who is 'we'? trouble is. every breeder who self grooms emself thinking they are the "ethical" ones dont think they need to do a thing. the world knows they are ethical, they know they are ethical. its only the riff raff puppy farmers giving breeders a bad name, so why should you get out of your comfort zone and work on good press? bit of shame soo and i mean VERY few realise pillary one and you pillary all. far as joe public knows if you breed dogs your a puppy farmer. and so the press is out there and its the bad stuff, and its being passed on by the very people who should be realising the ones they want destroyed are a MINORITY yet they are spreading the paint and its sticking to all. yes there does need to be good PR done. but knowing how the papers like to get a good story and the truth isnt on the radar. i well remember Wynn Eason working her heart out for publicity for the Cavy Club and pedigree Cavies, (guinea pigs for you not in the lingo know) they had a field day poking fun at her and conning her into putting em into custumes , flower pots and all manner of stuipid poses, but Wyn gladly put up with the snide cracks and implied lunacy on the grounds that any publicity for the fancy Cavies is good publicity. how many have her fortitude is the problem. i know one name springs to mind if he were ever interested, and thats Dr Harry's brother, now that guy is a wag. met him years ago and he had me in stitches. yep hes the hansome one, he told me so, so i can take it on good account cant I?

Discrimination is pretty rife throughout our various Victorian dog laws. Eg. Dog #1 in Public Place - Microchipped and Council Reg'd. Not actually wearing Council Rego Tag on collar. Ka Ching! $240.00 Fine to that dog owner, thank you very much. Dog #2 in Public Place - Microchipped and Council Reg'd. Not actually wearing Council Rego Tag on collar. But has been shown at Dogs Victoria Sanctioned event in last 12 months. That's ok then. No fine to that dog owner. Off Topic I know (sorry Steve) but it reveals even more of the stupidity, futility and discrimination created by our ill thought out laws. And this one did NOT go through without mention. There were objections. But the Labor Govt pushed it through regardless. And ashamedly, the Liberal/National Parties asserted the laws were flawed but in the same breath and sentence announced to Parliament they would not oppose them. So we have a Government creating stupid, cruddy and faulty laws and we have a Coalition knowing they are stupid, cruddy and faulty laws but giving them a green light anyway. God help us . probably how hitler got his through and the jews into ghettos then the concentration camps...little by little and bit by bit........... scary isnt it

the point being, age box? ticked. shows dogs. ticked. attack mode activated. no they arent out the eliminate show breeders? course not n of course if they had been debarked in vic, she would still be happy and maybe her rehomed one still alive. have my doubts about how much they like dogs that vet who launced the attack

yep, cant reveal my source but seems it was linked to the poxy and special meeting to turf someone mentioned in previous posts fiasco. within hours of losing the shove to eliminate the director failing , the resignations arrived. who thinks is just coincidence? not this liddle black duck i remember when mrs furber won her case there were some runners then too. aint politics interesting, be it state, federal and now we discover our own dear canine registeries?

you forget. they took every single one of them debarked or not was my understanding. No they only took the debarked ones. makes you laugh doesn't it ( well not really ) but the dogs were apparently in such danger that they needed to be seized immediately, yet they left dogs on the property. The debarked one's must have been the one's without food, shelter and water You beat me to it! That is exactly what I thought upon reading that only the debarked dogs were seized! UNBLOODYBELIEVABLE! They seized the dogs which had been debarked to allow them to be examined by their expert witness.They shaved their necks and gave them a general to look down their throats. Strange because all of the documentation was available to show who had done the job, where and how. Makes no sense to me but Im not them and they must have had reason for doing it this way. its called "padding the bill" wasnt an interstate vet called for their "expert" opinion? made u wonder a bit, none in victoria good enough? isnt even worthless a vet? i recall they flew in a vet via private plane for the Ruth Downey ripoff think it was 1,400 or 1,800 applied for to cover the cost? think the magistrate refused to add it to the almost 300,000 in legal fees they asked for anyway. and she wasnt even tried before a jury, just one lone magistrate

Fair enough - but is that to say that the RSPCA had no choice other than to seize Judy's dogs? Genuine question. No digs. they make choices not to every day. for example i know of a case the charges were failure to provide food and a second charge, failure to provide water. the person pleaded guilty to the first charge and the rspca decided to go with that and didnt press for the second charge. both were legal charges, they chose not to proceed. their poor liddle hands arent tied after all?? aw shucks when i asked at the time why was the second charge dropped. to be told, "we have proven our point". i still have the photos of the animals in question standing round a broken drain pipe licking the dripping morning dew, their only souce of water n they had proved their point? a conviction was what they wanted and once achieved they didnt follow the letter of the law then so why try that excuse now with regard to Judy?

yes thats correct

you forget. they took every single one of them debarked or not was my understanding.

That's terrible! Imagine all the people out there who are ignorant of the fact that a blue Stafford genetically cannot have a black nose (which I myself was not that long ago), being given the same answer as you got!! Maybe you could reply to Caroline with a link to the Dog Coat Colour Gentics website, directing her to the page specifically about nose colour and see how she replies to that! I might do some enquiring myself with the ANKC and see what they have to say. Does anyone think though, that if it was brought to their attention, they would actually do anything about it like change the Standard to exclude the blue colour? If they did it would put the BFB (breeding for blue) people out of business wonder if the desperate owners had them tattooed? only way i see it could be. i sure know of some that have a falsie teste inserted, my friend worked for the vet who did em sooo it happens

its odd that the dumpers are not the one being targeted for education before they buy. its breeders being blamed for the number of dogs being dumped or surrendered. making less dogs available for purchase, isnt going to weed out the dump or surrender mentality people, they need to be educated or disuaded from getting one in the first place. how is making it harder to actually find a dog going to address the throw away mentality? that doesnt seem to be on the radar yet?