The Reason Why You Cant

[Sandra777]

I think we all agree that the pup is very cute

Nope. I do not find that puppy cute. But since he's not my dog what does it matter what I think of him?

The question was why can't I show my blue and the answer was you can but don't be surprised if you don't win because blues as a general rule (not her blue specifically) lack the physical virtues required to make it in the ring. No one made any negative comment about the ability of a blue to be a great pet, have a great temperament etc etc etc.

If you then post a picture of a dog (whether it's a good picture or not, or even actually a picture of her dog or not) you have to reasonably expect people to comment on whether or not that specific dog as portrayed in that specific picture looks to have the quality to make it in the ring or not.

ETA: to casowner. Some of the reason dogs of any breed are sold on main register when they lack show potential could be their breeders don't care about the welfare of the breed as a whole OR their breeders don't know the difference between pet quality and show potential OR their breeders have such an amazing ability to screen puppy buyers they never sell to someone who will breed from a substandard dog OR their breeders are money-hungry BYB's who think they will get more money for a MR pup than a LR one.

And no, I have not yet met someone who was told of the possible negative outcomes of breeding for colour rather than health, temperament and conformation when they bought their puppy.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Sandra777

[conztruct]

I think we all agree that the pup is very cute

Nope. I do not find that puppy cute. But since he's not my dog what does it matter what I think of him?

The question was why can't I show my blue and the answer was you can but don't be surprised if you don't win because blues as a general rule (not her blue specifically) lack the physical virtues required to make it in the ring. No one made any negative comment about the ability of a blue to be a great pet, have a great temperament etc etc etc.

If you then post a picture of a dog (whether it's a good picture or not, or even actually a picture of her dog or not) you have to reasonably expect people to comment on whether or not that specific dog as portrayed in that specific picture looks to have the quality to make it in the ring or not.

Well I think he's very cute so we're even :D

[WreckitWhippet]

I think we all agree that the pup is very cute

Nope. I do not find that puppy cute. But since he's not my dog what does it matter what I think of him?

The question was why can't I show my blue and the answer was you can but don't be surprised if you don't win because blues as a general rule (not her blue specifically) lack the physical virtues required to make it in the ring. No one made any negative comment about the ability of a blue to be a great pet, have a great temperament etc etc etc.

If you then post a picture of a dog (whether it's a good picture or not, or even actually a picture of her dog or not) you have to reasonably expect people to comment on whether or not that specific dog as portrayed in that specific picture looks to have the quality to make it in the ring or not.

especially when the question is " why you can't show a blue"

[Sheridan]

What is it about a slate nose that prevents a staffy from taking down a bull?

Since Staffords weren't bred to bring down bulls I am somewhat puzzled by your logic :D

There are several written records quoting old time Stafford men stating the best dogs they had seen in the fighting pit were 'pigeon blue' and one of the two dogs on which the original standard was based was a blue fawn.

Stafford history isn't my strong suit, obviously. Whatever they were bred for, which by the above seems to be fighting?

I don't think many have any objections to the colour per se, just to the assumption that if it's blue it's 'pretty' or 'cute' because it's blue, and the idiotic prices charged for frankly bad and unhealthy dogs.

Personally I don't see a show dog in the picture posted. Personally I don't see much cute about the dog in the picture either. Is he a great pet? Well then he's fulfilling the function for which he was bought and that's great.

As for 25% developing dilution alopecia, well add that to the huge number of very badly bred Staffords which develop other skin issues (primarily allergy related) then you have a fairly high number of badly bred BLUE Staffords which will develop either alopecia OR allergy issues OR both.

People who breed for colour are in no way interested in what is best for the breed, regardless of what breed that may be.

How do you know?

Edited November 9, 2010 by Sheridan

[Just Andrea]

Sorry not to take this thread offtopic but I wanted to clarify the difference between LR and MR:

If I had no interest in showing or breeding whatsoever but wanted a sound quality family dog in terms of both health and temperament then a dog on LR is what I would be after? Also does that mean just because it is LR it is of lesser quality than a MR dog in terms of temperament and health or just visual criteria/standards in terms of showing? Just curious and no offence meant to anyone.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Just Andrea

[Dee_al]

He's not a showdog though, and Dee_al said in her first post that she has no intention of showing him. So as a pet he's the best ever....cute as a button.

I have an Aussie Shepherd girl I show, she has a lovely pedigree, she's nicely put together, moves beautifully.......and never wins a cracker. Big deal, not everyone does it for the glory, some do it for the fun day out with our dogs.

I do it for the fun day out with the dogs, I always have but that's no excuse to put a second rate dog or bitch into the ring.

The pup is also on the main register and I really have to ask WHY ?

Cute doesn't cut it in the show ring, baby puppies of every breed are cute but that's not reason enough to show them.

He wouldn't get a start at my place, regardless of his colour.

May I ask why? Are you basing your opinion solely on colour? Hope you dont mind my asking.

There are several things that immediately jump out at me and that's before he even stands up, as I said in the previous post " regardless of colour"

he was sold on main register because thats what the whole litter was reg under, not the whole litter was blue either by the way. The kennels registered all the puppies from the litter under main, its their choice how they reg their puppie, not that it makes any difference to me what he was registered for.

oh and btw, whats so wrong with my puppy by the way?

[Gayle.]

You should show him now that we know you can. The staffy class is aways huge so if he doesn't win, he'll have about 15 others right there alongside him that didn't win either. And you could come with me......I could ditch hub for the day and we can have a ladies day out with the dogs.

[Andisa]

You should show him now that we know you can. The staffy class is aways huge so if he doesn't win, he'll have about 15 others right there alongside him that didn't win either. And you could come with me......I could ditch hub for the day and we can have a ladies day out with the dogs.

Then maybe that is the best way to do it. Find out for yourself why and see what the other dogs look like....best way to compare him to others when so many in one place at the same time.

Ask owners for opinions (only if your game enough for the answer).

Nothing mentioned here means anything anyway so go and show the dog and see what happens for yourself.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Andisa

[fifi]

Sorry not to take this thread offtopic but I wanted to clarify the difference between LR and MR:

If I had no interest in showing or breeding whatsoever but wanted a sound quality family dog in terms of both health and temperament then a dog on LR is what I would be after? Also does that mean just because it is LR it is of lesser quality than a MR dog in terms of temperament and health or just visual criteria/standards in terms of showing? Just curious and no offence meant to anyone.

Andrea, a pup from a good breeder on the LR may be as good a specimen as a show puppy, the breeder may just not have a suitable show home for it.

Some breeders will put only the 'keeper' pup(s) on the MR and all others on the LR to try & ensure their lines do not end up in the wrong hands.

sometimes a LR pup may simply be mismarked for the showring. IE; too much white on a breed with specific marking in the standard.

A pup on the LR should be in every respect a healthy pup from parents who have been health tested for the breed's known issues.

fifi

[WreckitWhippet]

Yes do show him, there aren't enough out there, given the numbers being bred.

[conztruct]

You should show him now that we know you can. The staffy class is aways huge so if he doesn't win, he'll have about 15 others right there alongside him that didn't win either. And you could come with me......I could ditch hub for the day and we can have a ladies day out with the dogs.

Yes - there is absolutely no reason why he can't be shown so if that's what D wants to do, go for it. It isn't all about winning and there's nothing to say that D won't - it's the judges opinion on the day that counts and it's the final word.

I didn't realise that D was interested in showing from her earlier post but I really enjoy it and it's a great education - you get to learn a lot and see what else is out there in both your breed and many others. It's also a great idea to go with someone who's done it before - I know for me it was really good to have someone there who understood what was happening and was able to tell me.

:D

[Gayle.]

I don't think she actually is interested in showing, but its an option open to her, and at least she'd be getting an opinion she's paid for.

[conztruct]

As opposed to an opinion from a breeder and exhibitor with a lot of experience and knowledge in that breed - oh, I see. I really don't see where anyone crossed the line - RSG said they wouldn't show him if it was one of theirs and they had reasons why from the information that was placed in the forum in the form of a picture - they didn't go into any details on what in particular they saw which does show a bit of respect for the poster who I now note has asked the experienced breeder and exhibitor to provide some more information which is a great way to learn.

At no point did they say that the dog was not a good pet or that in anyone else's opinion it could not be considered a good specimen of the breed - they only spoke to their opinion with the information provided. Public forums are all about sharing information and opinions and instead of taking everything so personally, it is much better to review what was said, work out how relevant it is to you, take what you can out of it and ditch the rest.

Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one :D and wouldn't it be a boring world if they were all the same.

[WreckitWhippet]

I don't think she actually is interested in showing, but its an option open to her, and at least she'd be getting an opinion she's paid for.

why spend the $8-$12 to have a judge tell you the same

[Sheridan]

As opposed to an opinion from a breeder and exhibitor with a lot of experience and knowledge in that breed - oh, I see. I really don't see where anyone crossed the line - RSG said they wouldn't show him if it was one of theirs and they had reasons why from the information that was placed in the forum in the form of a picture - they didn't go into any details on what in particular they saw which does show a bit of respect for the poster who I now note has asked the experienced breeder and exhibitor to provide some more information which is a great way to learn.

At no point did they say that the dog was not a good pet or that in anyone else's opinion it could not be considered a good specimen of the breed - they only spoke to their opinion with the information provided. Public forums are all about sharing information and opinions and instead of taking everything so personally, it is much better to review what was said, work out how relevant it is to you, take what you can out of it and ditch the rest.

Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one :D and wouldn't it be a boring world if they were all the same.

Without seeing the dog in person and as a six month old pup, I believe it was, and sitting down to boot. I wouldn't be taking that opinion either.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Sheridan

[conztruct]

As opposed to an opinion from a breeder and exhibitor with a lot of experience and knowledge in that breed - oh, I see. I really don't see where anyone crossed the line - RSG said they wouldn't show him if it was one of theirs and they had reasons why from the information that was placed in the forum in the form of a picture - they didn't go into any details on what in particular they saw which does show a bit of respect for the poster who I now note has asked the experienced breeder and exhibitor to provide some more information which is a great way to learn.

At no point did they say that the dog was not a good pet or that in anyone else's opinion it could not be considered a good specimen of the breed - they only spoke to their opinion with the information provided. Public forums are all about sharing information and opinions and instead of taking everything so personally, it is much better to review what was said, work out how relevant it is to you, take what you can out of it and ditch the rest.

Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one :D and wouldn't it be a boring world if they were all the same.

Without seeing the dog in person and as a six month old pup, I believe it was, and sitting down to boot. I wouldn't be taking that opinion either.

Like I said - it's up to the owner as to what store they put by the opinion given but posting on a forum they're bound to get them whether they're good, bad or indifferent. Since they asked for some more specifics, I guess they're interested to learn and I think that's a good thing.

[SwaY]

Just to show the difference in nose colours.

[Remarkabull]

Take away the issue of the nose colour and I think that the problem with blue SBT's is that the majority of them are bred by people that are doing it for the money (to supply the ignorant with the latest craze and fleece them of a huge amount of money in the process) and are not breeding good quality dogs together and therefore are consistently producing dogs well below the standard.

ETA - Not saying that there can't be a blue that is everything a SBT should be (except, of course, for the nose ) but it's not good odds of finding one given how many are being bred atm.

Edited November 9, 2010 by dobesrock

[Tatelina]

Just to show the difference in nose colours.

*rubs eyes*

*still can't see difference*

*leaves judging to the judges.... *

[ellz]

Without seeing the dog in person and as a six month old pup, I believe it was, and sitting down to boot. I wouldn't be taking that opinion either.

Seriously, when you have had a certain level of experience with a breed, there are some things that are absolutely crystal clear from a photo, whether sitting, standing or playing dead!

People may not be aware that the Stafford is actually shown facing 3/4 on into the centre of the ring, not in profile like other breeds. His head is one of the first things seen and his head and front assembly are seen the MOST by the judge.

Based upon the photo alone, there are things about the puppy, which at 6 months would need a LOT of improvement to be seen as even a show "prospect" in my eyes....colour immaterial. At 6 months of age, you'd be expecting to see certain hallmarks which just don't jump out at me from the photo. And there are certain things that I can see about the dog's front assembly which can be corrected on the stack by an experience person, but which are more "honestly" seen when relaxed and which couldn't ever be hidden on the move.

So yes...I do think the dog is rather cute, but he'd be LR cute and in a pet home...again....colour immaterial.