Isabel964 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I met a previous colleague/friend of mine today, and asked how her dog (female lab) was doing. Her dog had been ill for some time and an older girl. She sadly told me she had to send her to the Rainbow Bridge in April. We had not thought she would make last Christmas. Very sad, she loved this girl so much. But the thing is, and the reason for this post is what happened when her dog was getting PTS. She said it took the vet 4 tries. The first time she did it, the dog was still conscious and then they realised the injection had gone wrong, missed the vein or something The second time the injection went wrong she said it seemed to have exploded at the point on entry into the dog's paw, there was blood everywhere, and the vet said the vein had collapsed The third time the vet tried a rear paw, the dog was in much distress.... and at this point I was in tears and could not hear any more about the details. I sat with my friend while she told me she was traumatised by what her dog went through in the last bit of her life, so much distress, how the dog looked at her during this time....she is so distraught over it. She can't even look at any photos of her beautiful girl. They are turned over or put way - she feel so bad. I asked her if the vet was experienced, if she new her - she said 'they' were the same people who looked after her girl for years and were absolutely outstanding through so many issues. Has anyone else heard of such a thing? I am traumatised by what my friend went through, I feel so much for her, and I am concerned about how often it happens and would like to know what to look out for to minimise this ever happening to me...or you. I have never heard of such a thing happening during the PTS process. My PTS experiences have never been like this. Is it because a lab is a big dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I met a previous colleague/friend of mine today, and asked how her dog (female lab) was doing. Her dog had been ill for some time and an older girl.She sadly told me she had to send her to the Rainbow Bridge in April. We had not thought she would make last Christmas. Very sad, she loved this girl so much. But the thing is, and the reason for this post is what happened when her dog was getting PTS. She said it took the vet 4 tries. The first time she did it, the dog was still conscious and then they realised the injection had gone wrong, missed the vein or something The second time the injection went wrong she said it seemed to have exploded at the point on entry into the dog's paw, there was blood everywhere, and the vet said the vein had collapsed The third time the vet tried a rear paw, the dog was in much distress.... and at this point I was in tears and could not hear any more about the details. I sat with my friend while she told me she was traumatised by what her dog went through in the last bit of her life, so much distress, how the dog looked at her during this time....she is so distraught over it. She can't even look at any photos of her beautiful girl. They are turned over or put way - she feel so bad. I asked her if the vet was experienced, if she new her - she said 'they' were the same people who looked after her girl for years and were absolutely outstanding through so many issues. Has anyone else heard of such a thing? I am traumatised by what my friend went through, I feel so much for her, and I am concerned about how often it happens and would like to know what to look out for to minimise this ever happening to me...or you. I have never heard of such a thing happening during the PTS process. My PTS experiences have never been like this. Is it because a lab is a big dog? Oh my gosh that is just horrible. Poor poor thing what a horrible thing for them both to go through. I have never had to have a dog PTS and my family has only ever had cats PTS so cannot really offer any insight. I hope your friend is ok and that you can provide her some comfort. It was not her fault at all. My thoughts are with your friend who has gone through such as hard time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Missing a vein can happen... although, unless things have changed a great deal, the amount of Valabarb or equivalant drawn up for a Lab would be a fair bit and I am surprised it wasn't noticed that the liquid was not going into the vein. Again though, it can happen. I would think that the amount given had caused the collapse of the veins too. It is very sad, and it may have been just pure bad luck or it may have been a Vet who misjudged the vein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) When our girl was PTS last yet it was nothing like this, awfully sad but very very peaceful. The injection went in and she just drifted off to sleep. ETA she was quite a big girl too about 35 kilos. Edited May 5, 2011 by RallyValley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Very old and very unwell animals can also have very poor blood pressure and it can make getting a vein very dificult. They can also collapse fairly easily. What happened to your friend would have been very distressing for her and her girl, but I can say it is only very rarely that such things happen and all bar one I have been at seen (which is lots) have been very peaceful. I am very sorry this happened to your friend and this dog and I think maybe the gentle suggestion of some councilling for your friend may not be a bad idea. Edited May 5, 2011 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Sorry for your friends .. I have seen it happen , veins can collapse due to illness.. or the needle can go straight thru .. or get blocked- and yes, it does make it very hard to watch.If we thought things may be difficult, we would ask owners to just step out for a minute . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frufru Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) How horrible for your friend - hopefully time will heal and she will be able to think about the wonderful times she had with her dog rather than the circumstances of its passing. I recently took an elderly friend to have her little mini poodle pts and at the last second the little dog moved her leg (she was notorious for this) and the vet missed the vein. Fortunately Delilah received enough of the injection to make her a little quieter and after a couple of minutes letting the dog settle the vet was able to continue injecting a different limb. Delilah did struggle a little even though she was very ill and her time had definitley come. I have been with several dogs as they were put to sleep and this was the first time that I had seen a dog struggle and it was distressing. The vet was very good and made the best of a difficult situation. I may be wrong but in the situation you described it may have been very difficult to get a vein - lack of hydration and age can mean that veins collapse easily. (sorry, we all posted at the same time) Edited May 5, 2011 by frufru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudel Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 My dog was a mastiff/great dane cross, he had veins you could put your finger down. The vets hit his vein first time every time, and it always collapsed. I could not send him in for any sedation with out 3 legs (on a good day) being shaved. When he was pts the same thing happened. He had 2 different vets and about 5 attempts, before he finally slept, then a few more before he died. It was horrible. One of the vets had done extra emergency study, and was excellent at hitting veins. It was not the skill of the vets it was my boys veins. Some dogs (and humans) have seemingly perfect veins that just collapse on the needle entering. Our pound used to shoot dogs that could not be rehomed, now they use an injection. Sometimes a bullet, or a knife to the throat is less traumatic for the animal, but people like the thought of a needle better. Personally I would not shoot a pet, the thought is horrible, but my head tells me in some cases it is more humane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I met a previous colleague/friend of mine today, and asked how her dog (female lab) was doing. Her dog had been ill for some time and an older girl.She sadly told me she had to send her to the Rainbow Bridge in April. We had not thought she would make last Christmas. Very sad, she loved this girl so much. But the thing is, and the reason for this post is what happened when her dog was getting PTS. She said it took the vet 4 tries. The first time she did it, the dog was still conscious and then they realised the injection had gone wrong, missed the vein or something The second time the injection went wrong she said it seemed to have exploded at the point on entry into the dog's paw, there was blood everywhere, and the vet said the vein had collapsed The third time the vet tried a rear paw, the dog was in much distress.... and at this point I was in tears and could not hear any more about the details. I sat with my friend while she told me she was traumatised by what her dog went through in the last bit of her life, so much distress, how the dog looked at her during this time....she is so distraught over it. She can't even look at any photos of her beautiful girl. They are turned over or put way - she feel so bad. I asked her if the vet was experienced, if she new her - she said 'they' were the same people who looked after her girl for years and were absolutely outstanding through so many issues. Has anyone else heard of such a thing? I am traumatised by what my friend went through, I feel so much for her, and I am concerned about how often it happens and would like to know what to look out for to minimise this ever happening to me...or you. I have never heard of such a thing happening during the PTS process. My PTS experiences have never been like this. Is it because a lab is a big dog? I know the look her dog had - my dear old girl gave me the same look under pretty much the same situation that you described - 6 yrs ago last month and the look she had on her face still brings me to tears today. When they are so sick their veins can be flat and very hard to find. I did not cope very well with the 2 vets that took what seemed like 15 - 20 mins before they had successfully put Jasmine to sleep. I felt they butchered her while trying to find a vein, it was bloody awful and my biggest lesson I learned that day was to have my pets pts before they are that sick. However it was the drugs that she was on that ended her life sooner - a bad reaction to the drugs is what I was told... I have put a few animals down now, from rabbits to a horse - while it is the kindest thing to do for them - it is the hardest thing for the owners especially when it doesn't go smoothly, it rips your heart out. I feel very sorry for your friend - the look on her dogs face will always stay with her.. as Jasmine has with me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel964 Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) So should we get the animal sedated first then? Is that an option just in case something goes wrong, the animal will be oblivious to it. My friend says her dog looked at her as if to say "Mum why are you doing this to me?!" ....its just awful. That look and that final experience is just all she remembers of her dog right now. I think counselling is a good idea - knowing my friend, I doubt she will go. She even insisted on going to the vet with her dog to be PTS on her own - she had family and a loving partner. But I will try. Anyone know a counsellor who would be good for this in central Melbourne? Edited to add: Andisa, just saw your post, so very sorry for what you an Jasmine went through. I had no idea this stuff happened, and thank fully its not often. Its good for me to learn about low blood pressure and it being hard for such sick dogs to be PTS. So since this DOES happen from time to time, at the first sign of a problem, can't the vet inject the animal with a heavy sedative? 20minutes for Jasmine....and it sounds like it was at least that for my friend and her precious girl..... its just too dreadful. Edited May 5, 2011 by Sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Whilst vet nursing, I saw this happen on only a few occassions. It was with a vet who had a great deal of experience but sometimes, very rarely, it goes wrong. I remember a particularly bad one where the injection blew (sp?) the vein and the poor old dog had a terrible time till it was sorted. Very sad for all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 After a bad experience with one boy (not the Vet's fault) I always get a strong sedative administered first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucknow Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Sometimes things go wrong. Veins collapse, needles move, blood pressure is too low to even find a vein, whatever. It is truly horrible when it happens in a pets final moments and something I find distressing as a staff member assisting - I would hate to face it as an owner. Happily it is fairly rare. Where possible we place a catheter away from the owner. They are easier (for me anyway) to get into reluctant veins, we dont have to worry about owners getting distressed if we have to try a few veins and it is easier especially on the patient as we can concentrate on just them without distractions. When it is safely taped in place we take the pet back to the owner and the vet can then perform the procedure without extra staff present so it is more quiet and relaxed. Often the smaller pets will be on their owners laps as they drift off. Some owners dont want to be separated from their pets at all and that is fine. We explain everything clearly before we start and as we go along and if at any time the pet gets distressed we stop and reassess out approach. If need be we sedate them and wait 10 minutes or so. Its a very long time since we had a bad euth in the clinic. We still have an occasional white faced vet coming back for a home procedure with hair raising stories. Honestly I wouldnt worry about it too much. If you are ever in that situation you can ask the vet to stop and take a new approach if things dont go smoothly. Sorry your friend had such a bad experience and her dogs last moments werent the peaceful painless ones s/he should have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsKatie Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) When we took our old staffy x they put a line into his veins and the fluid went into that - they took him out the back to put the line in and when they injected into it when they brought him back he just slept away peacefully - he was very old and they said his veins weren't good I am so sorry to hear of your friends awful experience - it is never easy to give them their wings ETA - lucknow - that sounds like what they did with our boy Edited May 5, 2011 by KelpieHoundMum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 With old/ill cats - with veins hard to use , we sometimes used to inject into a kidney ... and with tiny babies .. an injection into the abdominal cavity . These methods work, and in puppies, it just takes a few minutes . Poor veins are a hazard in human medicine as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucknow Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 So should we get the animal sedated first then? Is that an option just in case something goes wrong, the animal will be oblivious to it. Unless we know an animal will get distressed we dont give a sedative initially. It drops the blood pressure and so getting a vein can be more difficult. If we need to we can stop and give a sedative, wait for it to take effect and then continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel964 Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Pebbles, I am thinking of doing the same. Hopefully its years and years away til I have to do it, but I do not want to risk any of my babies spending their final moments like that. My first cat got PTS and he got so scared by the shaving noise...even though he was so weak with renal failure, I could tell the noiser shaver on his front paw scared him alot. So the next year when his 1 year younger brother also had renal failure and it got to PTS time, I insisted on a sedative. I think I will do that now, every time. Lucknow thanks for all that explaining. Its how they did things with my Abyssinian when his time came. It was all very nicely done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucknow Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 With old/ill cats - with veins hard to use , we sometimes used to inject into a kidney ... and with tiny babies .. an injection into the abdominal cavity . These methods work, and in puppies, it just takes a few minutes .Poor veins are a hazard in human medicine as well I like injecting directly into the heart too but unless they are unconscious I gas them down first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Luckily, distressing incidents area rarity when it comes to that final needle .. it's an awful time for everyone, and it does leave a horrible final memory picture. I think I've shared this before ..but it is an image which helps me a lot... The vet where I worked had a litter of unwanted newborn puppies brought in to be put down..... so - we made up a bed in a box ..put a hot water bottle in .. and injected them into the abdomen with the lethabarb.. The dear little things just snuggled up onto the hot water bottle ..all in a cuddly heap, and went peacefully to sleep for ever after a few minutes .. it was just so gentle .... I sometimes use this story of their passing to describe to folks that it really can be a gentle ending .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 When I had my beautiful Lexie PTS last year, they took her out the back to put a line into her leg first. Without things going wrong, its still one of the most heartbreaking experiences I've ever had. I really feel for your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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