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JamesI

Help with breeds please

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JamesI   

Hi All, first time post. My Elderly parents just lost both of their dogs in the space of a month, their whole lives they’ve taken on rescue dogs but now the time has come where they want the one small to medium sized companion. 

They had a dog many years ago called Sumpy, he was a (in Dads words) the best dog he’s ever had, smartest and most loyal. He could supposedly even talk when he cried! Does anyone have an idea what breeds he could’ve been? (The big guy not the pup)  

 

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RuralPug   

I assume that you attempted to post a picture of Sumpy? Unfortunately, we can't see it. That may be because it is your first post?
You may need to link to an outside picture library for us to see the picture until you have the minimum number of posts to add a picture here (I'm not precisely sure.)

Assuming that he was a mixture of more than one breed, which is likely if your Dad doesn't know the official breed, the genetic lottery on mixed breeds doesn't guarantee that you will get the same amount of intelligence, receptivity and temperament that Sumpy had. Even within a pure breed for many generations pups from the same litter can have different temperaments within the breed template.

And "smarts" and "loyalty" in a dog are as much nurture as they are are nature, which means that the very early training that Sumpy had (partly from his mother and other dogs around the place plus what he learnt from humans at a young age) gave him the structure to learn how to learn, if I've made that clear. Just getting another dog that looks like him or is the same mix is no guarantee that you will get the same character.
 

So perhaps you could tell us a little more about the sort of dog that would best suit your parents  for instance:
- what size?
- how active?
- is an 'off switch' important?
- how much coat maintenance can your parents undertake or afford?
- how much time and work are they willing to put into training?
- do they prefer a more independent dog who can happily spend an hour of two in the garden or are they ok with a dog that wants to be with its people 24/7?
- is it important that the dog has a relatively short adolescent (teenage troubles) or can they work around that?

That would give us a great start to suggest a breed or breeds that they could look into. :) 
 

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Hi James, sorry your parents lost both dogs so quickly, that would have been very hard.

As for your Dads dog Sumpy, we'd need a lot more details to even try and guess....so the, size, color, shape of head, type of nose, coat - hairy, fluffy, short, long or smooth etc etc....does your Dad have a photo of him at all?

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Guest   
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I’m sorry for your loss :( 

I second the advice from Rural Pug. 

I know that everyone has a different approach to which dog follows the other after a passing, some like to stick with the same breed, some like very different each time, some require all as small/non athletic/hypoallergenic (ish) as possible, all perfectly fine IMO. 

My only word of caution would be to have a careful think about whether getting a dog who closely resembles Stumpy physically but then doesn’t have many or any similar personality traits would be a comfort or an upset - and the other way around, would it be eerie having “another Stumpy” around? 

 

I lost my beautiful boy of 17 years, a rescue, and I honestly could not go to the shelter to look for my new mate. I’d have had no problems if a stray rocked up on my doorstep with a suitcase, but there are always too many down there who would be right for me yet not so much for others, meaning I’d likely leave having made a conscious choice to get a virtual replica of my dog - on the surface, at least. I feel that’d be doing a disservice to us both as I might make the negative comparisons that I’ve heard from a surprisingly large number of people.

i once knew someone who lost their dog to their former spouse in a divorce and went out to get the same designer breed, 

gender and colour. 

There was an awful lot of upset that the new pup didn’t do the things that “....but my OTHER dog, BJ....” did.

 

I’m not suggesting that your folks are like this! 

But I will admit that once you’ve had a few dogs you notice similarities and differences all the time and it’s a good thing to know how that will impact upon you. 

 

Hope you get a pic up for us to see! :)

 

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JamesI   

Thanks for all of your replies! Thats Sumpy in the photo above (the bigger guy).

Dad has set a little bit of a hard task, the previous two dogs they had were a Great Dane cross who weighed in at 65kg and a small little terrier, as my parents are aging theyve decided they want a dog small enough they can pick up but still want something a little bigger and a little less on the small and yappy side. 

 

Sumpy in the above photo is about the right size and the type of dog they are looking for, although it doesnt neccisarily need to be that breed. My parents live on 13 acres of bush , they dont want a house bound dog but at the same time one that wont dissapear into the bushes any chance they get .. as i said theyve set a hard task! 

If anyone can suggest other breeds similar to the size that would be much appreciated also!

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JamesI   
On Saturday, January 19, 2019 at 1:33 PM, RuralPug said:

I assume that you attempted to post a picture of Sumpy? Unfortunately, we can't see it. That may be because it is your first post?
You may need to link to an outside picture library for us to see the picture until you have the minimum number of posts to add a picture here (I'm not precisely sure.)

Assuming that he was a mixture of more than one breed, which is likely if your Dad doesn't know the official breed, the genetic lottery on mixed breeds doesn't guarantee that you will get the same amount of intelligence, receptivity and temperament that Sumpy had. Even within a pure breed for many generations pups from the same litter can have different temperaments within the breed template.

And "smarts" and "loyalty" in a dog are as much nurture as they are are nature, which means that the very early training that Sumpy had (partly from his mother and other dogs around the place plus what he learnt from humans at a young age) gave him the structure to learn how to learn, if I've made that clear. Just getting another dog that looks like him or is the same mix is no guarantee that you will get the same character.
 

So perhaps you could tell us a little more about the sort of dog that would best suit your parents  for instance:
- what size?
- how active?
- is an 'off switch' important?
- how much coat maintenance can your parents undertake or afford?
- how much time and work are they willing to put into training?
- do they prefer a more independent dog who can happily spend an hour of two in the garden or are they ok with a dog that wants to be with its people 24/7?
- is it important that the dog has a relatively short adolescent (teenage troubles) or can they work around that?

That would give us a great start to suggest a breed or breeds that they could look into. :) 
 

-A dog thats active would be ideal, they would like a companion out in the garden with them, but they are weary of dogs that go hunting for snakes. Theyve had a neighbour that has lost multiple jack russels to snake bites.  

-an off switch probably isnt overly important. Ive suggested a border collie, they felt they might be just a little too big but are happy with their high energy.

-coat maintenace isnt a worry for them. Theyve had dogs over the years that are groomed regularly.

-mum and dad havent been great at training their dogs over the years, short of the basics like toilet training and basic obediance.

-they would like a dog that comes outside with them, so i guess theyd prefer one thats happy to cling to them a bit.

-I dont think theyre too worried about the adolescent period, they are both retired and i think would enjoy the livelyness of a young pup around the property once again!

 

 

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JamesI   
On Saturday, January 19, 2019 at 8:03 PM, CharbearsMa said:

I’m sorry for your loss :( 

I second the advice from Rural Pug. 

I know that everyone has a different approach to which dog follows the other after a passing, some like to stick with the same breed, some like very different each time, some require all as small/non athletic/hypoallergenic (ish) as possible, all perfectly fine IMO. 

My only word of caution would be to have a careful think about whether getting a dog who closely resembles Stumpy physically but then doesn’t have many or any similar personality traits would be a comfort or an upset - and the other way around, would it be eerie having “another Stumpy” around? 

 

I lost my beautiful boy of 17 years, a rescue, and I honestly could not go to the shelter to look for my new mate. I’d have had no problems if a stray rocked up on my doorstep with a suitcase, but there are always too many down there who would be right for me yet not so much for others, meaning I’d likely leave having made a conscious choice to get a virtual replica of my dog - on the surface, at least. I feel that’d be doing a disservice to us both as I might make the negative comparisons that I’ve heard from a surprisingly large number of people.

i once knew someone who lost their dog to their former spouse in a divorce and went out to get the same designer breed, 

gender and colour. 

There was an awful lot of upset that the new pup didn’t do the things that “....but my OTHER dog, BJ....” did.

 

I’m not suggesting that your folks are like this! 

But I will admit that once you’ve had a few dogs you notice similarities and differences all the time and it’s a good thing to know how that will impact upon you. 

 

Hope you get a pic up for us to see! :)

 

Good points CharbearsMa, i think Dad is just feeling a little bit nostalgic at the moment due to the loss of their two  so suddenly. 

You are right, even if we managed to find a dog that looks exactly like Sumpy theres a huge chance he wont have even close to the same personality. Thats a great and sad thing about dogs hey, Never two the same. 

 

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12 hours ago, JamesI said:

Good points CharbearsMa, i think Dad is just feeling a little bit nostalgic at the moment due to the loss of their two  so suddenly. 

You are right, even if we managed to find a dog that looks exactly like Sumpy theres a huge chance he wont have even close to the same personality. Thats a great and sad thing about dogs hey, Never two the same. 

 

I know hey, I don’t think us humans have as many different personality types or combinations. We sure aren’t as smart as them, either! Well,  I know I’m not haha ;p

 

Sending hugs to your Dad Xxoo. 

I have a few older relatives who’ve either just lost beloved dogs or still feel as though a loss happened just yesterday. Even they’re amazed at how hard it is for them, at that stage of life it apparently can be a worse feeling than loosing a human (a close one, not some random no one liked lol). 

I hope your Dad’s doing as well as possible. The right dog will definitely come along :) hopefully we can help you  track him/her down! Xx

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Selkie   

As you've pointed out, no two dogs are the same, and they can't go looking for a "replacement" for Sumpy. Your parents may be in the right position to go looking for a fostered dog in a rescue organisation. That way, they can meet dogs until they find one that they "click" with. That's such an important factor, and really difficult to predict.


An Australian Cattle Dog or small cattle dog cross may be suitable. They are trainable, and tend to stick with their owners. 

 

Most dogs will hunt snakes if given the opportunity - terriers will be more persistent, of course, and Sumpy looks like he may have has some terrier blood!

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@JamesI I think Sumpy was a blue/tan Australian Terrier -- a breed very close to my heart and in my opinion, one of the best breeds ever!

 

They are still around today but harder to come across; usually when I have my own Aussie out and about, people ask if she's an Aussie and when I say yes, the reply is usually "I had one of those growing up back in the day and it was the best dog ever!"

 

If you need help in sourcing perhaps an older Aussie, let me know because there are a lot of breeders I can name and recommend for you.

 

This is Kirah, my current Aussie :)

 

Blue/tan pups are born all black and as they get older the tan head comes up more and more.  From your photo, both dogs look quite young!

Capture.JPG

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asal   

sumpy might have Aussie terrier in him but his legs are double the lengh of any aussie I know, be interesting to know what else is in him.

 

great little dogs, neighbour used to breed them. pretty much might fit what they are looking for though, nice size etc, sometimes one of hers will follow their nose, but much more laid back than the "everready bunny" jack russel's I know.

 

http://ankc.org.au/Breed/Detail/37

 

spotted this one is  dogzonline listed breeders

 

https://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/breeders/australian-terrier.asp

 

 

 

Edited by asal
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RuralPug   

Thanks for the pic. My guess is that Stumpy was a typical "mixed farm terrier" which we don't see as often these days. They were usually a blend of various terrier types, a bit of Australian Terrier, a bit of Fox Terrier, a bit of Jack Russell etc. etc. His build is quite like that of the  Border Terrier but the head structure is very different.
 

All terriers are vermin hunters, so if they don't want their new dog to be off chasing snakes, they are very much best to avoid the entire terrier family if they are unable to provide a snake free environment. Many dogs will chase snakes, but terriers will do so single mindedly! They also need to avoid other breeds with strong chasing instincts such as Dachshunds and Beagles and Bassets. I am also assuming that they either live on reasonable sized property without a fenced house yard or they do a lot of off lead walking so they don't want a dog that will tend to run off when not leashed like a sighthound, so I have ignored Whippets and the like.

So they would like an active intelligent dog that won't fixate on hunting but is a fair bit smaller than the Border Collie or Australian Shepherd. The first breed that springs to mind is the Pembroke Corgi, which is basically a medium sized dog on short legs. A herding breed, so the Corgi thrives best on plenty of human interaction or they will appoint themselves a job to do like many of the active working breeds (which might NOT be a job you'd like LOL).
Other smaller herding breeds to consider are the Cardigan Corgi, the Shetland Sheepdog and the  Swedish Vallhund. Sometimes a herding breed will herd anything that moves (including snakes) however if well bonded with their owners they respond well to direction and will stop when told, which is much harder to do with a terrier or hunting breed intent on the chase!

Some of the smaller companion breeds that are quite active and smart without strong chasing instincts and not generally "yappy" would have to include the Tibetan Spaniel, the Bichon Frise (but the coat there is extreme!)  and the Havanese and a well-bred Miniature Poodle. If the more clingy spaniel temperament appeals to them they should also consider Cocker Spaniels and Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

If they were able to provide a snake free environment, and could cope with the single-mindedness of many terrier breeds (which some call stubbornness but isn't really. No other group of dogs can do stubborn as well as a Spitz breed in my book! :laugh:) then the Australian Terrier is a delightful little breed, if somewhat rare these days, and they could also consider the Border Terrier or the West Highland White Terrier,

So there is a heap of suggestions for them to start to investigate. I'm sure others in this forum will be able to suggest some breeds I've not thought of! :)


 

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mita   

I'd put in a vote for a Cardigan Corgi.  Great all-round versatile, sensible dogs.  Have a look at the Breeders' notices on Dogzonline Purebred Community where they advertise adult dogs they're seeking to retire to good pet homes.  

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On 1/19/2019 at 1:35 PM, JamesI said:

Hi All, first time post. My Elderly parents just lost both of their dogs in the space of a month, their whole lives they’ve taken on rescue dogs but now the time has come where they want the one small to medium sized companion. 

They had a dog many years ago called Sumpy, he was a (in Dads words) the best dog he’s ever had, smartest and most loyal. He could supposedly even talk when he cried! Does anyone have an idea what breeds he could’ve been? (The big guy not the pup)  

 

They're elderly.  I'm no spring chicken myself.  I'd say cruise rescues and find a mature dog that feels right.  Pups are difficult for oldies.  Milk teeth puncture thin skin, bending over to clean up messes is a chore.  Breed matters, but individual temperaments vary greatly within a breed.  Keep looking...they'll find one that suits.

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I'd suggest a Koolie - not a puppy - Australian Koolie Rescue can be contacted through me or Facebook and have a range of nice dogs of varying ages.

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I think the next dog for me will be an adult,  my daughter has a new pup & gee wiz he has some energy,  not something I want to deal with anymore 

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Swedish vallhunds are super little dogs, very active and intelligent, they are a spitz though so can be a bit independent! 

 

The fellow in the pic looks very much like a terrier so certainly snake chasing is a risk but some are more driven than others, breeders will be able to tell you more about their lines though. 

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