miss2 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I have friends that were looking for a new puppy a few months ago and asked me for my opinion. I pointed them in the direction of DOL and told them to attend shows etc. I also gave them my rant on back yard breeders and success – they decided to go registered breeder :) Last week I received a phone call from them saying they went out to a breeders place to meet the breeder in person and view the parents of their potential pup ( yay I thought to myself, everything’s going well). My friends said the breeder had 30 + dogs and they were all kennelled in runs. The runs were apparently very clean but with no toys or any form of enrichment. She asked how often they came out of the runs and was told when they are showing them. She said whilst the breeder was very lovely, these dogs clearly weren’t pets and their main purpose was for breeding and showing. They left undecided if they still wanted to go down the registered breeder route and upon talking to her today they have decided to just get a pup from the paper or gumtree. Her reasoning was ‘ at least if they are just someone’s pets the parents would get more love then the kennelled dogs’ I spoke to her about health testings and personalities and everything else but she said they feel like they are supporting a puppy mill if they went with the reg breeder after seeing the amount of dogs this breeder had. I also couldn’t not convince her that not all breeders run like this. I’m looking for others opinions please? Both breeders and not. And if anyone else has had an experience like this at all? I’m in no way trying to offend anyone or be flamed myself ( have my flame suit on lol ) but for some people who genuinely just want a pet to love and may not know the breeders full situation or what is involved with showing dogs I can see how the mind would tick over at this sort of thing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I wouldn't have stayed there very long either perhaps she should visit another breeder or two ? Instead of gumtree - why not go to pet rescue ? Most folks there at least check you out , and offer support . Most BYBers do not offer a trial period or anything like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Could you maybe show her some photos of good breeders set ups with their bitches and pups in the house and out running around? I've seen photos like that on some breeders websites Maybe take her to a good one if you know of any in the area. Otherwise I agree with Perse, try a rescue. I unfortunately came across a similar situation when looking for a puppy. I kept looking. Edited July 28, 2014 by LisaCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allerzeit Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 She can have her cake and eat it too, and have a dog from health tested lines, bred by a registered breeder, along with all of the support that comes with purchasing from an ethical registered breeder, as well as having a puppy from dogs that are first and foremost beloved pets and companions. She just has to make the effort to find a breeder that meets her needs, and who breeds in a way that she is comfortable with. Some breeders have large scale kennel operations, and many other breeders breed on a much smaller scale and have their dogs living with them in their homes - it sounds like you've already tried to tell her this, and she's not willing to listen, in which case there probably isn't much more that you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) I'm puzzled by your friends' final decision that it was somehow better to go with a newspaper ad or a gumtree ad. They seem to be saying that there they'll get a pup whose parents were loved as pets. How do they know the circumstances in which a pup was raised unless they, again, actually go and look? I'm also puzzled that your friends made a generalization about registered breeders.... of whom there are thousands... on a sample of one. If they were buying a car, they'd check out more than one dealer! They need to join the dots... they want a pup who's been raised in conditions where the parent dogs are treated as pets AND they prefer a registered breeder. So they need to check out OTHER registered breeders to find those who keep and raise their dogs in the manner they're looking for. And, in fact, look at the registered breeders' ads on the Dogzonline site. Numbers of them make the point that their dogs are raised in circumstances very like a pet home. All of our purebred tibetan spaniel pets have come from breeders who do that ... as well as their dogs excelling in the show ring. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Here you go... the very first registered breeder I found on the Dogzonline site says this (& you'll easily find similar for your friends' breed of interest): We are a small show and breeding kennel, breeding Tibetan Spaniels for Type, Temperament and Soundness. All our puppies are house reared, socialized, vet health checked, vaccinated, microchipped, regularly wormed, heart wormed and are registered with Dogs NSW (enquiries welcome) Edited July 28, 2014 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 She needs to see more breeders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) I had a similar experience with the first registered breeder I met for my chosen breed. The negatives outweighed the positives so I looked elsewhere. I found a lovely small breeder who really only breeds rarely these days. Unfortunately her bitch kept having silent heats and after a long time waiting she recommended me a couple of good interstate breeders. I now have by beautiful puppy, he is 9 months olds now and I am in contact with her on a weekly basis. I send her photos and stories about Ronin and she does the same with the girl she kept from the litter. I know that she is there anytime I need her and I would like to think we are now friends. It is also reassuring to get similar feedback from her on the trials and tribulations of raising Ronin's sister who really are two peas in a pod :D These are things that I would keep in mind when looking for a puppy. Like anything there are exceptional, good, average and bad registered breeders, I would whole heartedly recommend your friend keeps looking for the really good ones. My gut tells me there are more good ones than bad. Edited July 28, 2014 by Yonjuro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkabull Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) I think that it's a very common misconception that all breeders are like puppy farmers. There was a guy on FB looking for a pup and when it was suggested he check out a registered breeder he had a rant about not wanting to buy off a kennel and would prefer byb as they are loved pets. I told him I must be doing all wrong then as my birch whelped in my bedroom and stayed there with her pups for the first 3 weeks of their lives. Edited July 28, 2014 by Remarkabull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miss2 Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) I honestly had a brain fart and didn't even think of rescues!! Mita, me to. I think they didn't like what they saw with the first breeder and then decided that it was just easier to go byb. I completely get what you’re saying though. I guess that brings an element of laziness into it? Looking at one and then just taking the easier option? she knows that I ‘am currently on the lookout for a new dog and couldn't understand us being on a waiting list when there are so many breeders of our chosen breed around. I explained to her the reasons why we have chosen this breeder and one of the reasons is that she is a small time breeder. Because of this she does not always have litters available. her dogs are raised and kept in a family environment. I guess I am a bit frustrated with her and also that my advice seems to have fallen on deaf ears. I CAN understand them not wanting to go with someone of that scale though and that's no offence to the large scale breeders just my personal preference. Edited July 28, 2014 by miss2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 what breed is she wanting ? perhaps there are DOLers who breed, or know of breeders who might be more to your friend's liking ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miss2 Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) they are looking for a border collie. i just looked at the breeders list, wow there are a lot of BC breeders, they shouldnt have any problems finding one... ill send them some links :) no idea if it will change there minds but i will try again Edited July 28, 2014 by miss2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 If she's wanting a pup in NSWi can suggest Mahteek Deidre has pups listed at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miss2 Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 yep - they are located in Goulburn so anywhere within a 4 hour drive would be ok. thank you wreckitwhippet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snippy Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I just spent half an hour writing a response to this, in the meantime there have been a gazilleon posts and now mine seems superfluous. Like this post. Just wanted to have a grumble :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miss2 Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 I just spent half an hour writing a response to this, in the meantime there have been a gazilleon posts and now mine seems superfluous. Like this post. Just wanted to have a grumble :laugh: lol sorry snippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) they are looking for a border collie. i just looked at the breeders list, wow there are a lot of BC breeders, they shouldnt have any problems finding one... ill send them some links :) Look what I found in the Dogzonline list of registered breeders of border collies... who presently have puppies available. Exactly what I was talking about before... a registered breeder who makes it clear how their dogs and puppies are raised into a life that's the same as a loved pet dog. I wiped out the name of the kennels, so I wouldn't be seen to be promoting a particular breeder that I don't know in reality. But I dips my lid to this person's words At X Border Collies our dogs are not locked away in kennels but are free to roam our 40 acres property and are very involved in our everyday life. Our dogs are very much a part of our family so in addition to being very beautiful our dogs are bred for their wonderful temperaments. Our pups are raised with lots of love and affection and are very happy and playful. Edited July 28, 2014 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) When looking for a Border Collie you need to make sure the parents have been tested clear or not affected by the 3 main diseases, Cl, TNS & CEA. Also with low hip scores. You would very likely not find this done by a byb. Here's a long thread on a sick BC pup with tns. very sad but proves how important genetic testing is. http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/238882-sick-border-collie-pup/ Edited July 28, 2014 by luvsdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 they are looking for a border collie. i just looked at the breeders list, wow there are a lot of BC breeders, they shouldnt have any problems finding one... ill send them some links :) Look what I found in the Dogzonline list of registered breeders of border collies... who presently have puppies available. Exactly what I was talking about before... a registered breeder who makes it clear how their dogs and puppies are raised into a life that's the same as a loved pet dog. I wiped out the name of the kennels, so I wouldn't be seen to be promoting a particular breeder that I don't know in reality. But I dips my lid to this person's words Please - your friend really needs to research their breeder well. Same goes for registered or back yard. There is money to be made by breeding to fads, colour being one of them. There are some really great breeders who do all the testing and the dogs are family raised and those well, it would pay to do some good research on. My best advise is keep a good eye on the puppy listings - you will soon see which breeders are always having a litter and what they are breeding for and those who breed with the breed standard in mind and also do all the right things by the breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Like everything its research BUT also looking at the dogs ,there temps & how they interact with general public. House raised doesn't guarantee any more better than kennel raised & i think people shouldn't fall into the trap of just presuming one way means a better pup . Its also unrealistic to compare a small breed litter to a large breed litter where by 5 weeks the needs are very different. Free roaming a property can simply mean we have lots of space so never need to take them out ,it could mean our dogs are very active & high need & may not suit the average backyard pet . I now plenty of BC whose pups are raised in the house then go to the kennels super pets that do well in all fields with a stable mind & enjoyable to live with . Like already mentioned buying a health tested dog is a no brainer if they want a pup with some guarantees not to be afflicted with issues that are testable . Then it would be the dogs ease to interact with mi can tell you now some of the best dogs i have been around may not come from the frilly & fancy place some may expect . For me there is more to now about the dogs,breeder & there pups than it lives on the couch & yes our pups are raised in the house BUT you still have to make the same effort to give them enrichment than those raised outside . The key is people can right any words to make you think awesome so its important to check out what is fact from fiction & what each breeder offers in support & knowledge Edited July 28, 2014 by showdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 It's a shame that was the first breeder she saw but she's giving up pretty quickly, I'd be checking out another breeder if I was her, do you think she would consider it or is she now dead against the idea? How sucky that the first breeder she met was a bad example Can't really blame her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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