JulesP

Yikes lilli! I don't have electric for the horses as a friend's horse died after getting stuck in a fence just as I was doing my fences. I have a feeling that it is also illegal to use electric in a garden in some places?

Thanks guys. I took the other 2 dogs out into the paddocks and tried to get her to come out to see where she got out but she stayed in the garden. She has been in the pony's yard by the looks of it but that is the only evidence I could find.

"I doubt that having the bitch entire or not will make any difference. Entire bitches don't go looking for dogs unless they are ready to mate. Six month old puppies though, do often like to go exploring if they get the chance." Yeah that is what I got told last time. I have desexed 2 girls now and both times it has stopped any desire to leave the property. So dunno. 2 parts of the fence line have really heavy shrubbery alone them. Growing through the fence in places. Not sure how I would go putting a normal electric fence up.

Got up this morning and my 6 month old bitch was not with the other 2. I quick look showed her bolting around the fence trying to get back in! No idea how long she has been out. She is fairly muddy and the watering can I had outside has been chewed. This is the third 6 month old bitch I have owned that has started escaping at this age! The first was easy to fix as I lived in suburbia. The second I ended up desexing, which worked but I do regret it. I have mesh fencing, a wire and then a rail. Garden is an acre, is undulating with shrubs etc around the boundary. None have gone right over the top. The girls have found gaps and gone under. Brock (4yo male) worked out how to jump between the mesh and top wire in places. I go around and fix the areas when I find them. He jumped out and back in this week to retrieve a disgusting bone they found in the paddock. They don't wonder off too far and there is no stock in this area so they aren't in danger of being shot. The road is dangerous. Brock doesn't go near it, too scared. I obviously don't want them out. I am very suspicious that she got out this morning too. My neighbors unrestrained dog comes over early every morning. I am sure he is the reason that the other 2 girls wanted to get out. They were supposed to have desexed it but dunno. If i had the money I would replace the whole fence with chain mesh, higher and dug into the ground. A friend had been suggesting a electric dog fence for years but I have been worried about this collars. Lots of stuff here for collars to catch on. What the hell am I going to do? Have a run - 2 x 4metres. But the whole point of being here is so they have an acre to run around in.

Now there is some excellent and very intelligent advice!! Well said Bonduca, if only we could all cut right to the nitty gritty of the matter like you do. So there you have it, pick the breed you like the look of. Forget about if the breed is suitable for your goals. Forget about about health concerns. Forget about thinking how the breeds temperament might be to live with. Just pick the breed that visually appeals to you, remember "that is all the counts". Actually it isn't bad advice. Both breeds sound suitable for the OP. Within both breeds there is a range of temperaments. Their visual appearance is a reasonable difference. Pity you aren't closer to Croydon haylz27. Leopuppy and I are usually there on Sundays and there are other nice examples of both breed. There is a herding comp on at Nyora this weekend. Should be lots of Aussies there as it is at a breeders house. Big drive for you though. The lady I get my borders from lives in Geelong, can pass over her details if you want to talk to her. She has a lovely big boofy blue 6 month old pup looking for a home at the moment.

I looked at my bag of the breeders pack (same as Performance Lifestyle) but it is still imported from USA. Last I heard it wasn't all being made here.

The 2 tri ones will do! snigger

Tell haylz27 about your border collies leopuppy04!

I gave my dog human joint stuff. You can get that in tablet form.

Well technically it is arguing within the breed :D I looked up comps for you haylz27 and you have just missed Geelong's Obedience Comp. Can you get to KCC park? That is likely to be the best opportunity to see both breeds.

Minced up chicken frames.

I would have to wash mine every evening if they were going to sleep on my bed! They are total grots!

Some BC show breeders actually have sheep farms too :D

I don't find it surprising that the Australian Border Collie is supposed to be genetically different from the UK or US ones. BC were imported here and then mated with other breeds. Of course they are going to be different. Sorry haylz27 there is rather intense angst about show and working border collies! I currently have 3 borders and they are all so different. That is why I am finding it hard to give differences in the breeds. Brock is a big dog. He is super calm and quiet and totally loves every person he meets. He is totally non aggressive with other dogs, even if they bite him! When off lead he would rather go chat to people then other dogs. He was very slow at agility. He could get to CD level in obedience and works quite nicely. He is smart in an almost human way! A lovely, easy to live with dog. Poppy his half sister is super intense, very focused and is leaves no doubt that I am her human. She could pretty much do any dog sport. She is on the smaller side. She is also pretty easy to live with. Has a great off switch but is on the instant I ask. She is not keen on other dogs, I call her the fun police! Amber is a very sunny puppy. Always happy. Good with people and dogs. A bit more high energy but I can still take her out to a cafe and have her sit quietly. And she is 6 months old. I imagine she would do well in any dog sport too. All 3 dogs are pretty soft and don't respond at all well to firm corrections.

My border collies prefer to be outside. They like coming in during the evening and then are happy to go back out. The pup looks like she might like to stay in. If I try and get them in during the day they aren't too happy about it.

Same here. I was purely talking about genetics. And because they can't be registered as chocolate merles doesn't mean they aren't called that by breeders/BC people in discussion surely? Yeah I've never called my shaded sable a black tri, except in a very tongue in cheek way

I wouldn't describe my borders as obsessive or full on Having seen a fair bit of both breed I really don't think you can generalize too much. I really don't get your point about colours Shortstep. It really doesn't matter what they are registered as, it matters what they genetically are. Merle does not express on EE red at all btw. If you have seen a EE merle then chances are it is genetically a shaded sable merle.

The working Aussie I am particularly thinking about was also imported.

Short Step much of what you say is true for my 'show' bred borders too. As for Aussie vs Border. Well they are both great breeds and I don't think the OP will go too far wrong with either as long as they are prepared to do the training. I've got borders but get to hang out with a lot of Aussies at herding and really like both breeds. The working Aussies I know don't look like Coolies. They are a bit lighter but more the frame of a show border then a coolie. Agility or obedience I would go for either breed. Herding I would go for a border, simply because I love how they herd.

People are always asking me which border I have with me. They really don't look anything alike except for both being black & white!

Pro Plan Salmon has always porked my dogs up.

Souff you made me cry. Poor dog.

I crate after a herding run and it certainly seems to help. But I then do another run with her within an hour usually which seems to cement what we learnt in the first run. I wonder if it would it work the same if you didn't train again until the next day?

There are some things in my breed's standard that I just don't agree with - colour and ear set. These are obviously cosmetic things. If a colour is genetically possible and doesn't cause health issues then it should be in the standard IMO. Thinking about it there are some colours that are allowed that can cause health issues (skin issues)!

Do you use wait for your recall Mas1981? If you are going to use wait & stay then you use them at different times. I only use wait for recall and change of position. So wait there until I give you a new command. Stay means do not move until I come back to you. I am very particular about this. And about releasing. Mas1981 when I have built duration I start doing distance. But I drop the duration right back down whilst I am doing the distance. Also try variety, so he doesn't know when you are going to come back. Nothing wrong with going back, reinforcing and then doing more stay. Mind you I feel like giving up with Poppy as she is still scared in her stays She is ok if I stay within a couple of meters. Go any further and she starts to freak out. Poor girl. On Sunday she fidgeted away from one dog, realised another one was on the other side, fidgeted back, and then finished the rest of the stay with the paws moving.