Steve

I assume what he is talking about is what is already in regarding no more than 10 fertile bitches if you are a registered breeder without further compliance requirements.

Gee I didnt get that she said she would just sell pups to anyone that just comes along - did I miss it?

because the radicals have drummed up support and its about votes.

So what does he think he is going to do? Just tell everyone who has followed the law and put tens of thousands of dollars into their properties to comply with their stupid laws, in the case of commercial breeders they have invested hundreds of thousands – tough titties, your properties have just massively dropped in value, and you can no longer, pursue your hobby or earn your living,even though you have done it all by the book? They have been inspected, and comply with all of the regs and laws and had their approval to operate – but he is promising that he will Remove their development approvals and licenses and have everyone in Victoria who breeds a puppy have only 10 fertile dogs and miraculously the demand for puppies will simply disappear? Miraculously every dog in Victoria which is being bred will be treated as they should be according to their crap laws and owners will all do the right thing and never have the desire or need to surrender their dogs? But wait - notice there is no talk of banning sales of live animals in pet shops – just making sure they are doing the right thing. There is a hell of a lot of breeders in Victoria including registered breeders who own more than 10 dogs who don't own hundreds. Just forget about property laws, and consumer laws and make the owning of fertile dogs which is a legal activity as long as you follow regulations illegal if you have more than 10 ? Does anyone really believe this? The animal rights loonies will believe he will/can do it and he'll get their votes. Hope someone asks him how he plans to reach this goal – Dogs may not be raised for food but expecting that its possible to restrict people to only being able to own 10 fertile dogs on their own properties according to codes for breeding dogs is akin to expecting that by 2020 people and farmers will be restricted to 10 chickens or 10 pigs whether they follow regulations for their industry or not because we don't want factory farming in these animals either. He may be able to make it harder but stopping anyone owning and breeding more than 10 fertile dogs no matter what – not a chance.

I saw - still looking beautiful and sounding so competent and professional - job well done Julie

It is a civil matter so the onus of proof is only on the balance of probabilities. BRD is the criminal standard. then I dont reckon they stand a chance

ANKC breeders are able to sell to PIAA pet shops - in most states Really! I don't think it is the case in SA . And what the hell sort of ANKC breeder would sell their puppies to a pet shop anyway? Not one I'd have much respect for I had a face to face altercation with the PIAA CEO about their stance on 'ethical puppy farms' Most puppies in most petshops ARE from puppy farms - full stop. Please NEVER buy puppies from petshops. I can't believe any self-respecting registered breeder would want their progeny rehomed by 16 yr olds who know nothing. Agreed and everyone who wants to buy a puppy should ask why a breeder would dump puppies in a pet shop and take much less payment and remain out of the loop for the buyer. The minute you buy a pup form someone who is primarily motivated to make money over the welfare of the new family and the dog you should know that corners have to be cut in order to make a bigger profit they take less money for their pups because they have something to hide. And dont think that a registered breeder cant be a puppy farmer - if they sell to pet shops whether they are registered or not they see their [puppies as animals shipped off to market with no care for their welfare.

Far as I know SA is the only one that cant but it hasnt been tested and would probably fail if someone wanted to challenge it as its against ACCC free trade laws. ANKC Allows it - see their code.

I missed this - Im so glad it wasnt any worse and all is now well.

ANKC breeders are able to sell to PIAA pet shops - in most states

how on earth are they going to prove it was frozen puppies who mucked it up beyond reasonable doubt ?

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Nothing here tells me you should be worried - give them a ring anything could have happened to prevent you getting notice of the deposit including them sending it and you not receiving it.

Ive got some lovely fresh organic stuff just in and I include notes with all orders

Pups stressed ? Oh well - glad she is O.K. and live puppies on the ground.

Yep so many expectations from the foster carer go belly up - because the foster carer THought things would be a certain way when the group do things differently and expected that anyone coming in would know that.

A bitch can pant for days before she is actually in labour - only the temp will tell you - not whether or not she is panting.

relax - take her temp three times a day and this will tell you when its almost time. If the bitch isnt in trouble no need to make trouble.

Stats are great for giving them a bit of a snap shot on how they are doing where they need to change, how they can better manage money andanimals, etc and if you are clever enough it encourages supporters and donations. As it stands now whenever someone quotes stats at me to tell me why they want new laws or regulations or blame one group or one type for thestate of affairs etc or what sort of job they are doing to build their credibility I would take any released with suspicion. There are loads of things which go on behind closed doors and secret squirrel stuff happens to protect a reputation or a brand and the only visibility is the one they want to share. Some would say that's fair enough if you are looking at the human element or their ability to do what they think and have decided is what is best for the dogs. But in my opinion this shouldn't be about the humans before it's about the dogs .if the focus were on keeping the stats to answer questions and collectively work out real life potential management options to prevent dogs coming in and ensuring the best outcome when they do we might be able toone day see the way clear to addressing and eliminating the problem with knowledge rather than guesses or at best educated guesses based on what somegroup has seen or think they have observed in their area.If stats were kept under one protocol with some type of accountability and they ALL told us 1. Where the dog came from and the reason given for surrenders 2. Where the owner who is surrendering the dog got their dog from 3. What condition the dog was in when it came in 4. What expenses and or man hours were required to prepare it for rehoming 5. How many were rehomed, how many were put to sleep how many stay for years. 6. What level of temperament and basic good manners the dog had at in and out 7. How many are desexed when they arrive 8. How many are sick when they arrive 9. How many are old when they arrive 10. How many are puppies when they arrive 11. How many are pregnant when they arrive 12. How many have already been "saved" by any other org previously. 13. Wha tis the turnaround time 14. Probably a bunch more Then we could really do some realistic research and knowwhat needs to be done to have a go at slowing down the supply. At this point intime it would be easier to teach big fat feral pigs to fly.

There are many decisions and many assumptions made about dogs coming into pounds and rescue all based on stats which are dodgy or guesses. Until we collect the same data state wide we will never have a clear view of how what where or why by anyone.

Yep and then you have the other stats that we need to know - how many that are put into new homes bounce back?

You are talking about the references which would explain why its better to mate them younger not that you shouldn't breed them older. Though there is a greater chance of uterine problems of an intact bitch which is not bred as they age. According to canine reproduction specialist Dr S. Romagnoli"bitches whelping regularly throughout their reproductive life almost neverdevelop pyometra, while those who whelp rarely or never in their lives have a greater chance of developing this condition". Standard textbook of veterinary internal medicine notes that uterine diseases are less common in kennels where bitches are bred and conceiveregularly indicating that pregnancy has a protective effect on the lining of the uterus or "endometrium"5,6 1994 Donnay and his associates showed that there is a relationship between the number of pseudopregnancies a bitch goes through andthe development of mammary cancer Verstegen and Onclin (2006)" 1 have also studied canine mammary cancer and found that a large number of bitches presented for mammary tumors also show pseudo pregnancy, that a large percentage of these females had frequent pseudo pregnancies and that the bitches with recurringpseudo pregnancy at each cycle tended to develop mammary tumors significantly earlier than other animals." 1.J.P. Verstegen III and K. Onclin. Prolactin andAnti-Prolactinic Agents in the Pathophysiology and Treatment of Mammary Tumorsin the Dog. NAVC Proceedings2006, North American Veterinary Conference (Eds). 2.Canine Pseudopregnancy: A Review (Last Updated:23-Aug-2001) 3.C.Gobello1, P. W. Concannon2 and J. Verstegen III3, RecentAdvances in Small Animal Reproduction, Concannon P.W., England G., Verstegen IIIJ. and Linde-ForsbergC. (Eds.) 4..Donnay I, Rauis J & Verstegen J – Influence desantécédents hormonaux surl'apparition clinique des tumeurs mammaires chez lachienne. Etudeépidémiologique. Ann. Med. Vet. 1994, 138, 109-117 4.Simón Martí Angulo Clinical aspects of uterine disease in the bitch and queen.Proceeding of the Southern European Veterinary ConferenceOct. 2-4, 2009. 5.S.Romagnoli, How I Treat… Pyometra. Proceeding of the SEVCSouthern European Veterinary Conference Oct. 17-19, 2008 – Barcelona, Spain 6.Davidson AP, Feldman EC. Ovarian and estrous cycle abnormalities. In: 7.EttingerSW, Feldman EC (eds) Textbook of Veterinary Internal Medicine. WB Saunders, 2004 8.Johnson CA. Cystic endometrial hyperplasia, pyometra, andinfertility. In: Ettinger SW, Feldman EC (eds). Textbook of Veterinary InternalMedicine WB Saunders, 1992, pp. 954 9. Helio Autran de Morais, DVM, PhD, ACVIM,RESPIRATORYDISEASES IN OLD DOGS Proceedings of the 34th World Small Animal VeterinaryCongress WSAVA 2009 São Paulo, Brazil – 2009 10. S. Romagnoli, Infertility in the Bitch, Proceeding oftheSEVC, Oct. 17-19, 2008 – Barcelona, Spain Southern European Veterinary Conference

If they are taking pups form mum and not socialising them with people its probably better for the pup and the family to take it at 6 weeks than leave it another two without handling and playing enough with humans.

When I had a baby at 45 people said you will be in your 60's when he is 21 - so what? He is 17 now and several of his peers have lost parents through accidents and cancer .You live life today and make plans for your dogs just as we all do for guardianship of our kids . Im not living without a dog. Full stop even if I make it to 110 and its pretty bloody offensive to think people are thinking at 61 Im too old for ANYTHING.

6 years ago I [placed a Male Maremma with an 82 year old lady who was pretty frail. Because of the breed it is no work and it lives with her side by side day in and day out. She tells me he changed her life - gives her a reason to get up and look after something and she no longer has to worry about someone breaking in as the dog sleeps beside her bed. May God help anyone who tries to decide Im too old to have a dog .