Your Choice For A Small Performance Dog

[RallyValley]

Thanks VCBR, I looked those up the other day

ETA: Have you forgotten I already own 2 Lab Retrievers?? A 3rd at this stage isn't really required!

One day I want to have a bit of a retriever collection.

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

My Cardigan corgi girl is doing quite well for me in obedience and agility, as a beginner (thanks Daisy for the compliment). They are surprisingly fast and agile, and pretty common in dog sports overseas. The Cardi's, in my admittedly limited experience, can be independent thinkers- my girl does come up with more efficient ways of doing things on her own! I love watching the little papillions flying through agility, and one of our agility instuctors sucessfully trials with CKCS. I have a real soft spot for the tollers, too.

[RubyStar]

Thanks VCBR, I looked those up the other day

ETA: Have you forgotten I already own 2 Lab Retrievers?? A 3rd at this stage isn't really required!

One day I want to have a bit of a retriever collection.

So when's your first Lab coming along?

[Henrietta]

Thank you guys.

I think that the working and most of the larger herding breeds are out. I cannot imagine myself with a kelpie, koolie, BC etc. I do love the gundog group, but I especially love the utility guys... I am thinking Vizsla as my 'pick' from the gundog group BUT I am going to go out to meet some dogs of various breeds in action and talk to some owners. I know I will own a gundog one day, whether they are my next dog will remain to be seen.

Yes, FHRP I exaggerated a little bit didn't I? In my mind I had a picture of a pap next to a Vizsla.

I love the idea of a smaller, active dog as well. I am very keen on the poodle (I am thinking mini is a perfect size) but the TT breed keeps drawing me in as well, and I would be looking at Shelties and Paps.

Now the Vallhund is also an interesting dog, I have heard that they really enjoy training, they are a working breed of course! Can you tell me more about their temperament, Corvus? Are they a breed that you think a relatively inexperience trainer could deal with? Point taken about the agility.

Now, can anyone recommend me an obedience/agility trial or dog show in Queensland that would be a good opportunity to meet some of these breeds. I realise that I probably won't get the opportunity to see all these breeds at once, that would be too easy. I don't mind travelling within reason, I live close enough to the south-east corner so I am lucky. I will just try and make a day/weekend of it. I will be looking at Dogs Queensland website as well to see what I can do.

[corvus]

Now the Vallhund is also an interesting dog, I have heard that they really enjoy training, they are a working breed of course! Can you tell me more about their temperament, Corvus? Are they a breed that you think a relatively inexperience trainer could deal with? Point taken about the agility.

The Vallhunds I've met have all been very outgoing dogs. Erik is probably at the drivier end of the spectrum for Vallhunds, but it seems common for them to be... quite motivated, I guess. It's hard to put into words what their temperament is like. Erik is a little firecracker. Bright and sparkly and fiery. He does just about everything with a bang. We joke that he cusses like a sailor, because he gives the impression of putting strong emphasis on things. You can really picture him swearing. He struts around radiating confidence and there's always this sense of "F*** yeah!" whenever he does something. He is quite noisy and outspoken. He lets you know when he doesn't like something. Not a lot of guesswork with him. I like it, but I think it helps to be confident yourself and not especially bothered by a little dog loudly telling you that you stink and he'll do what he bloody well likes. The thing is, it's so easy to change his mind. He'll work for anything from a cuddle to a piece of cucumber. I find him to be a handful at times, as he needs a fair bit of mental stimulation and if I skip a few days of training he starts making his own fun. But I think he's unusually demanding. :D

I guess it's a hard call for whether Vallhunds would be good for an inexperienced trainer. I think some would be fine. Erik, maybe not. But then, the worst of it is just trying to keep up with him. The qualities that make him so much fun and so easy to train also make him quite likely to invent lots of things to do that you won't like. I found it necessary to be quite stringent with NILIF purely so he wouldn't spontaneously come up with half a dozen obnoxious things to do before I got around to giving him something. It's not hard with him, though. He is quite biddable and very reliable. He's also very family-oriented and loves cuddles and sleeping on your foot. He's great with other dogs, but a little aloof of strange people.

Erik's breeder is on DOL and hangs out in the spitz thread. She's been breeding Vallhunds for ages and is great to talk to.

[RallyValley]

Thanks VCBR, I looked those up the other day

ETA: Have you forgotten I already own 2 Lab Retrievers?? A 3rd at this stage isn't really required!

One day I want to have a bit of a retriever collection. :D

So when's your first Lab coming along?

I count Bronson as my first lab . And I have basically already had a Goldie too.

I would love to get a Lab one day but I would have to be really happy with the lines/type ect.

(Sorry OP for going OT so much!)

Also for the OP a friend of mine has two mini poodles that do agility that are really smart little dogs!

[MrsD]

Shelties, I have seen a couple of shelties doing agility and they were delightful to watch. When you say 'from the right lines' is it safe to say that some lines are producing traits that are undesirable in a Sheltie?

There's a fair bit of shyness around. You want a more drivey, resilient dog for performance. Good Shelties ARE out there.. you need to ask performance folk where they get theirs.

A sheltie by breed standard is meant to be reserved with strangers. Don’t mistake reserved for shy. A sheltie is very focused on his owner and not really interested in strangers to any correct degree, this is a correct temperament. A shy sheltie that is terrified of the world is just as incorrect as one that bounces all over everyone with terrier type temperament. I would hope most breeders would be breeding for correct temperament.

Cowanbree, I know there is a difference between reserved with strangers & shy, there are definitely certain lines & individuals over here that do NOT pass the test. A sheltie should not cringe away when a judge walks up to them, I saw plenty do that in the show ring & I only showed for 6 months, so that's not good odds.

I know that technically an over friendly sheltie like mine who loves people may be a fault in your book but it sure as heck isn't a fault in mine .

Emmm, if you are interested in shelties I can pass on some details of the breeder of my boy who has lovely dogs & will not send you to a breeder who's dogs won't suit if she doesn't have anything available. Tali's mum will also be able to tell you of her breeder if you are interested (I'm pretty sure she got put onto Tali's breeder by the breeder of my boy).

[Henrietta]

Thanks Corvus, I'll have to come hang out in the Swedish Vallhund thread to get a wider feel for the breed. I have a heap of questions, so when I come back tonight I may invade the Vallhund thread. Erik sounds like a character, especially in his attitude to work. They sound like they can be challenging but also highly motivated, you just have to find what works. Another breed I'll have to try and meet!

Mrs D thank you for your offer, I'll pm you. :p

[angelsun]

Manchester Terrier and English toy Terrier have great drive and excel in agility and flyball. German Pinschers (a big bigger) are also very versatile and have great drives. all have low grooming requirements but do shed.

[Furkidsforever]

I'm going to throw a totally new breed into the discussion. You want a small, intelligent, active, outgoing companion dog that can do obedience and agility successfully - go for a Yorkshire Terrier !!

Because there aren't many around, you don't see them in the obedience/agility arenas very often. However, they do extremely well in USA and in our breeding lines there was a dog that attained its UD title in NSW.

In SA I have a friend who has trained three of hers and only because of work commitments and doggie maternal duties has stopped for now, but they did exceptionally well.

As for grooming - you just trim the coat and keep it that way. No shedding either.

If I was physically capable of doing obedience, I would be out there with my little yorkies ....

[helen]

My next choice will be a Brittany, pretty much for the same reasons as yours... though probably considered to be a medium rather than a small dog.

Jumping 500, I consider them large!

I think Brittanies are a med-large size breed. My personal fav of the coated gundogs Though if you were thinking of going that size, you would probably be considering the top agility breeds like BCs and Kelpies as well as you will be competing against them.

Even some 'small dog people' are finding it hard/impossible to resist the idea of getting a BC if they are competitive type people

Ha, I have had many a first place against plenty of Border Collies And if you don't like to live with some of the herding dog traits then they are perfect

Emm - Brittanys are also a utility gundog, the smallest of the HPR dogs. Very socialable dogs and very loveable.

Edited May 7, 2010 by helen

[Austerra]

What are your thoughts on hair? Especially with smaller dogs, many of them have long hair. Any type of coat you would prefer or not consider? Or look/type of dog?

Some ideas:

Sheltie

Mini Poodle

Papillon

Cavalier

Bit bigger:

Cocker Spaniel

Competitive but a bit more independent:

JRT

Border Terrier

Manchester Terrier

Japanese and German Spitz

Add Aussie Terrier to that

[raineth]

I think Papillon or Mini poodle.

I foster cared three cattle dog x something tiny puppies that would probably have been perfect for you!

They were clever, energetic, cheerful, drivey, bold, and with a good dose of sweetness too (loved cuddles and being with their people). Ofcourse whatever they were crossed with meant they were half the size of a cattle dog (they really were SO tiny!)

You could always consider a rescue puppy with the right temperament and breed mix

[Loves Dogs]

a staffy My girl has the most amazing acceleration and is very agile. She is quick but has the concerntration to listen to me and follow my every move (which gets her unstuck when I get lost ) they have a short coat so no grooming and a female is small. Sorry how could I resist to recommend them just gotta love em! ps she jumps 300

Edited May 17, 2010 by staffy lover

[Tiggy]

I've just started taking my Stafford Banjo to agility training. We love it . He'll be jumping 400 but he clears it easy.

[ophnbark]

Schipperkes can do really well at most disciplines, just got to make it the most rewarding experience ever and they'll do whatever you want.

[skip]

I have been reading this thread with interest as I want my third dog for agility soon. I have a toy and mini now and think a mini would be my size.

As the original poster said she was going to learn but wanted a dog that would suit - I think a medium energy dog would be good. Lots of good suggestions.

I chose a dog from rescue that was half kelpie only as I didn't think that I could handle the exercise requirements of a full working breed. So he is about 10 kgs and jumps mini as he is a smudge under 40cm.

Great dog to learn on as he is agile and easy to run. Not that driven but then again not too fast.

ophnbark - love to see a pic of your schipperkes only as a few people suggest that is what he is crossed with. I did not think so but the topic of his breeding is asked a lot and I am curious.

[Lady Flying Furball]

I think you seriously need to take a look at some papillons. They are a very unique breed and fantastic candidates for what you are looking for. Such little gems can be lost in a list of more well known breeds. Have a look on YouTube at some of your potential breeds too.

Papillon doing agility

Their coat is actually low maintenance and doesn't require trimming.

[CrazyCresties]

Why it's obvious, a Chinese Crested of course

Small, energetic, fast and intelligent, and if you go for a hairless one then not much grooming (a bit of skin care required though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYIjDZI7zSk

Not me I hasten to add, although Louis has loved the tiny bit of agility he has done at dog class and taken to it like a duck to water

[Monah]

My choice would be a mni poodle if I were looking for a small performance dog.

However, my cousin in law has a tentie (that she bred) who is a champion agility, jumper, tracking, endurance dog and she is excellent, Tas (dog name) in QLD ;) She also has another tentie, ACD and a kelpie. The acd is a working bred dog and is fantastic at all disciplines too and small and light (Turbo). She has a great temp. The kelpie is coming along well, she's a baby and the old tentie is a pensioner ;)

I love Manchesters and regularly see 3 in QLD (one owner) who are brilliant but they may be a little larger than you would like. Tollers are compact, clever and have lots of drive.

Good luck with your choices, go out and look and ask questions about breeding lines etc. I'm sure something (or someone ) will jump out at you and help you make a decision.