Rare Or Disqualifed Colours In Breeds.

[Ker]

I want to smoosh Amber and kiss her on the head!

[~Anne~]

Outside influences such as pollen in the air, carperting, the type of washing powder used in washing its blankets/bedding, grass, plants, intolerances to certain types of food or proteins, additives, preservatives and last but not least OVERVACCINATION. And yes the immune system may be compromised hence the attributed allergies but my point is that if a dog fits the standard it is allowed to live even though it may be of a breed that is known for its skin problems or genetic health issues.

Moselle, I think you might need to read up on allergies and how they relate to the body.

The outside influences you talk of - pollen, carpeting and similar are the allergens. The dog has to have an immune response for those things to affect it. They cause the reaction you see but they do not cause the allergy.

Over vaccination may be a cause of dogs developing allergies, so on that one you may be correct.

[poodlefan]

To answer the question on colour and issues:

White - deafness, low immune system, skin and hair issues. Common link can often be thyroid irregularities. White with lack of pigment usually spells trouble, especially for hearing.

Black - more prone to certain kinds of cancer including hemangiosarcoma and bone cancer

Black and Tan - parvo magnets

Fawn and Blue - dilute colour alopecia. Not often seen in Whippets thank God but definitely in SBTs and Dobes.

Those are the ones I know of.

Out of curiosity, do these apply to breeds where those colours are common?

Example being my Black labs, would they be more susceptible to certain kinds of cancer? Or is it only the case in breeds where the colour is rare/disqualified?

Or Samoyeds, are they more su susceptible to deafness ect?

Apparently the cancer link goes across breeds for black dogs.

Rottweillers are noted as being more susceptible to parvo as a breed.

Can't say about Samoyeds but Westies get skin issues noted in health issues for the breed.

[Nevafollo]

Thanks Sammy Ballerina!

No worries!

tis true they are very very cute...what about Hav's do they have any none allowed colours?

[ellz]

sorry i dont know enough about the breed. what is the issue with her colour?

The main issue is that the border collie standard in Australia is weird. lol. Amber isn't one of the allowed colours. I could find no health issues with sable border collies.

You will find that a lot of the problem with certain breeds and their non-acceptance of colour is that in some cases, they cannot actually pinpoint the origin of the colour in history. Some breeds have therefore questioned the validity of pedigrees and claimed that the "odd" colours (which may still be perfectly beautiful) have come in via infusions of genetics from other breeds carrying the colours.

This is one of the leading arguments behind the non-acceptance of the sable colour in American Cockers today. It was hinted at some time ago that another breed was introduced, either accidentally or deliberately into certain pedigrees and this is where the sable (and possibly the merle) genes started to happen.

Despite the fact that there were for a few years some simply stunning examples of Sable and Sable parti American Cockers shown, and titled, it is now possible to register them but they are DQ'd from the ring in the USA, Australia and some other countries. But permissible in Canada and the UK.

Very confusing.

One of my old American imports is the grandfather of some simply breathtaking sable/parti dogs (one is an All Breeds BIS winner in the USA) but he never sired a sable to my knowledge during his stud career in Australia.

[Diva]

Example being my Black labs, would they be more susceptible to certain kinds of cancer? Or is it only the case in breeds where the colour is rare/disqualified?

I think all black dogs might be, having gone through this with a Groenendael - all of whom are black of course. I was advised when I lost my boy that they do have a relatively high incidence of hemangiosarcoma. Of course breeds can have a tendency to certain types of cancer unrelated to colour, but when it's said to be colour linked and the whole breed is that colour - I guess it's a bit chicken and egg. I'd still have another Groen though.

Edited: this thread is moving too fast for me, the question's already been answered....

Edited November 4, 2010 by Diva

[JulesP]

thank you. she is gorgeous, is the colour acceptable in any standard?

Yes in most other border collie standards around the world.

[~Anne~]

sorry i dont know enough about the breed. what is the issue with her colour?

The main issue is that the border collie standard in Australia is weird. lol. Amber isn't one of the allowed colours. I could find no health issues with sable border collies.

You will find that a lot of the problem with certain breeds and their non-acceptance of colour is that in some cases, they cannot actually pinpoint the origin of the colour in history. Some breeds have therefore questioned the validity of pedigrees and claimed that the "odd" colours (which may still be perfectly beautiful) have come in via infusions of genetics from other breeds carrying the colours.

This is one of the leading arguments behind the non-acceptance of the sable colour in American Cockers today. It was hinted at some time ago that another breed was introduced, either accidentally or deliberately into certain pedigrees and this is where the sable (and possibly the merle) genes started to happen.

Despite the fact that there were for a few years some simply stunning examples of Sable and Sable parti American Cockers shown, and titled, it is now possible to register them but they are DQ'd from the ring in the USA, Australia and some other countries. But permissible in Canada and the UK.

Very confusing.

One of my old American imports is the grandfather of some simply breathtaking sable/parti dogs (one is an All Breeds BIS winner in the USA) but he never sired a sable to my knowledge during his stud career in Australia.

A similar theory and situation exists with brindle Pugs.

[TeamSnag]

I have two unusual coloured greyhounds. Woody is solid Dun, and Coconut is White and Dun Brindle.

Only around one in every three thousand greyhounds born is dun, and it is an allowable colour.

Dun isn't so much a colour, but a gene that turns black hair into brown, similar to the dilution gene that gives you a blue dog, but different. I suspect that Woody also might have that dilution gene as well as the Dun gene, as he is such a washed out colour.

Coco's brown markings are a rich chocolate brindle stripe over fawn. She is mostly white with brown ticking. Her nose is a plum brown sort of colour. Woody is a dusky taupe, with a slightly darker nose. Both have brown lips, and no black pigment. His coat is a bit like a weim and a bit like a brown kelpie.

I have been meaning to ask about your Greys Greytmate, they are stunning .

My contribution is dapple Daschunds.....

They arnt rare, and u can show dapples..

[t-time]

It's tough in Australia as the ANKC judging explicitly says the judges here *must* follow the colours as spelt out in the breed standard - this has created a whole heap of problems for Havanese which come in every colour of the rainbow!!

Look at the "Havanese ABCs" website and there are pages dedicated to the colours of the breed!

Overseas including Europe, the judges don't bat an eyelid at the colours

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

sorry i dont know enough about the breed. what is the issue with her colour?

The main issue is that the border collie standard in Australia is weird. lol. Amber isn't one of the allowed colours. I could find no health issues with sable border collies.

You will find that a lot of the problem with certain breeds and their non-acceptance of colour is that in some cases, they cannot actually pinpoint the origin of the colour in history. Some breeds have therefore questioned the validity of pedigrees and claimed that the "odd" colours (which may still be perfectly beautiful) have come in via infusions of genetics from other breeds carrying the colours.

This is one of the leading arguments behind the non-acceptance of the sable colour in American Cockers today. It was hinted at some time ago that another breed was introduced, either accidentally or deliberately into certain pedigrees and this is where the sable (and possibly the merle) genes started to happen.

Despite the fact that there were for a few years some simply stunning examples of Sable and Sable parti American Cockers shown, and titled, it is now possible to register them but they are DQ'd from the ring in the USA, Australia and some other countries. But permissible in Canada and the UK.

Very confusing.

One of my old American imports is the grandfather of some simply breathtaking sable/parti dogs (one is an All Breeds BIS winner in the USA) but he never sired a sable to my knowledge during his stud career in Australia.

aahhh!!! the penny dropped, that made a lot of sense, thank you ellz

[ellz]

Rottweillers are noted as being more susceptible to parvo as a breed.

Staffords are (according to vets anyway, I've not seen it personally) apparently more prone to parvo as well. I wonder if that is because they carry the tan point gene?

I also had a litter of American Cocker puppies (black and tan) that got parvo as babies (despite vaccination) and when older, not ONE Of them retained any form of immunity.

[Janba]

I guess Amber should have been bopped on the head then

Probably in Australia she should have been. In almost every other country in the world (and maybe every other country) she's an acceptable colour. She is a lovely colour.

There are some cases where the colour standards in breeds are laughable and Border Collies is one of them in this country.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

thank you. she is gorgeous, is the colour acceptable in any standard?

Yes in most other border collie standards around the world.

well i think that for me means that she is ok. for instance in NO officially recognised standard is the red boston an accepted colour so therefore they shouldn't be bred.

so i see it as ok if the official standards in recognised countries say the colour is good

[poodlefan]

Liver roan Cocker Spaniel. Permitted by breed standard. Field Spaniels can be this colour also.

[JulesP]

Sable is allowed in the UK BC standard. I am also looking at a print I have that is obviously a sable border collie that was painted in the 1800s! The Australian BC standard doesn't make much sense genetically.

With white dogs and deafness it is not the coat colour that is the problem with deafness it is the lack of pigmentation in the skin. If the inner ears have no pigmentation it can result in a deaf pup.

[Bjelkier]

To answer the question on colour and issues:

White - deafness, low immune system, skin and hair issues. Common link can often be thyroid irregularities. White with lack of pigment usually spells trouble, especially for hearing.

Black - more prone to certain kinds of cancer including hemangiosarcoma and bone cancer

Black and Tan - parvo magnets

Fawn and Blue - dilute colour alopecia. Not often seen in Whippets thank God but definitely in SBTs and Dobes.

Those are the ones I know of.

Out of curiosity, do these apply to breeds where those colours are common?

Example being my Black labs, would they be more susceptible to certain kinds of cancer? Or is it only the case in breeds where the colour is rare/disqualified?

Or Samoyeds, are they more su susceptible to deafness ect?

It can crop up occasionally in Samoyeds but its not common.

Some reading about deafness in Samoyeds:

http://www.samoyedhealthfoundation.org/dis...e-2013-deafness

http://www.cat.menswatchusa.com/uncategori...-is-my-dog-deaf

http://www.critterchat.net/deafpuppies1.htm

EDT to fix wording

Edited November 4, 2010 by Bjelkier

[MalteseLuna]

But what of the dog that is not prone to health issues because of its colour?

Is it always due to health reasons that certain colours are not acceptable? If not, why are they not accpetable?

No - most standards were written before colour genetics was understood properly. Perhaps some should be re-written.

However breeding for a specific colour particularly in some breeds can cause doubling up on recessive disease genes etc. Some colour genes have close relationships with disease genes or important functional genes i.e. MITF (spotting gene) and deafness or Merle or...

Just because something is true for one breed doesn't mean it's true for another.

As many have said before (that I merely summarised):

(1) preventing greeders from doing DAMAGE to the breed by promoting 'rare' colours and exploiting/inbreeding/overbreeding is one of the main reasons put forward.

I can sympathize as Maltese are often used in 'oddle' farms and if there was something I could do to stop them being exploited I would probably do it.

[julzjc]

What! No-one wants to comment on the pretty TTS

They were very cute!

[wuffles]

There are all kinds of funky genetics stuff happening with white dogs from different breeds... for example chinchilla can cause solid white dogs with black pigmented eyerims/nose/lips for example samoyeds (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

My Aussie's nose filled with black pigment in her first few weeks, her eye rims started filling in from 10 weeks, her lips are mainly black with pink spots, and many areas around her head have black pigmented skin with white fur. Very interesting :shrugs: