persephone Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 omg don't blow that myth out of the water.... its how we got all our dogs.. :) We have had a few like that , too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Muzzle and penned up when not supervised. As for "the farm" most problem dogs on farms get shot in the end. I once had a ETT that bit me not long after I got her as a pup. My reaction was a quick back hand. She never did it again to me or anyone else. I dont endorse hitting a dog but if the timimg is right and they have no doupt in their mind what caused the reaction it can work. I didnt think to hit the dog(was more of a tap) it was just a reflex action. This JRT has got away with this behaviour for too long by the sounds of it so a dog trainer may be of more help to retrain humans and dog. Edited January 26, 2012 by kelpiekaye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 kelpiekay given that the dog has bitten the owner, I can't see that supervision is the answer? It bites when supervised! I crate my girl when someone visits and she is learning to go to her crate when the door bell rings. If my sister's kids are staying overnight then she goes on special holidays to Cosmolo's house. She was muzzled around adult strangers that she knows very well, however she went for my sister on Christmas Eve even though she knows my sister very well and was completely relaxed with her for a few hours before. I don't want this to become a pattern and it was very scarey for my siter so Lucy be crated when she's around in the future. She is fine with her trainers and dog walkers in her territory and doesn't display the same level of aggression outside the house (can be fear aggressive on walks, but this is very well managed and she has never actually had a go at anyone outside the house). She is fine at agility and obedience. Happy, sweet and relaxed. People think she's an angel! That said, she has never shown any aggression to me, even when I've given her a big fright or picked her up. She might hit the deck for a second and then wag her tail: "oh, it's you!". We can criticise the owner all we like and say "it can be fixed by seeing a behaviourist" but it doesn't just take effort to "cure" and manage aggression - it takes a lot of skill, nerves of steel and a fair whack of money - not everyone possesses all these things. I believe something isn't right in my girl's head (she was a breeding bitch ona puppy farm and has spent most of her life in a small cage). She can know someone for years, be happy to see them and then - out of the blue - be scared around them, even in the same context (ie same location, same time, same activity). I will continue to work with her until the day I die but I don't have kids and I don't have many financial obligations so I can afford to spend up on experts, socialisation classes, walks with a trainer etc. If I had children then I couldn't risk their safety with Lucy and she would have gone to heaven a long time ago. So the point of my long rambling post is that, while the owner appears to have let this dog down, I empathise with her. It is heartbreaking, stressful and so time consuming when you deal with a dog with aggression. It is easy to sit on the other side and say "see a behaviourist". If it was that simple, Lucy would have been cured years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't think anyone is saying that it's simple Megan but obviously it's an option. Many people DO see great results working with professionals on aggression issues, and at the very least a good professional will assess the dog, the owners and their situation and advise whether rehabilitating the dog is the best option for all involved. In the right situation it can work. Like it did for this family: http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages/DJ-the-Black-Lab-vs.-Granny.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I agree that they should consult a professional, and at least try before PTS, however I have seen on DOL many times people say that if you're 100% committed aggression can be cured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 A yes, the mystical "farm" that's just itching to take on a problem dog. I've noticed this a lot on DOL. People tend to think that problem dogs, hyper dogs, dog aggressive dogs, escapees etc etc all belong on a farm. I think there's more temptation to do wrong in rural areas than there are in the burbs. I don't think it's just DOL, I think it's a pretty wide spread idea that there is some magical farm where all problem dogs can go and live. There's no farm. What farmers want problems dogs any more than people in the suburbs do? Dogs with behaviourial issues need training. Not acreage. Funnily enough, I know of several people who's childhood dogs went to the magical farm. They later found out that the dog was PTS for one or several of those behavioural issues you mentioned. Clearly the parents didn't want to tell them the truth. I wonder how common that is??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Maybe the owners could use a muzzle on the dog when the children are out of site with it, they use them on greyhounds so why not any other dog that could bite. they are not used on greyhounds cause they bite people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Maybe the owners could use a muzzle on the dog when the children are out of site with it, they use them on greyhounds so why not any other dog that could bite. they are not used on greyhounds cause they bite people Agreed! Greyhounds are such gorgeous animals - such a misconception about them though Edited January 27, 2012 by Everythings Shiny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 My friend had plastic surgery to repair a wound from her JRT biting her face. He was outside being his usual aggressive self and she went out to shut him up. When she picked him up, he "accidentally" bit her and she pulled away making the tooth rip through her flesh beneath her nose all the way through her top lip. Now, she shouldn't have gone behind him and picked him up and it was an accident, however, he is an aggressive dog. If he wasn't being aggressive and barking, snarling and growling at whatever it was he had seen, then the incident wouldn't have happened. People are scared to visit the house because of this little terror, but there is an 11 year old child living there who loves him. My friend can't keep her from going outside to play with him but she doesn't want to re-home him or PTS. What would you do in this situation? 'usual aggresive self' - whywas this dog not properly trained in the first place. There is no reason at all for a dog just coz its small to have its aggressive behaviour accept as 'normal'. The dog and the dog owner need proper trainingin how to make the dog a proper pet not yet another aggressive uncontrolled little dog. Cesar Milan has made millions due to people not discplining their dog when its young and teaching it the correct behaviour. If the owner can understand that its up to her and the family to retrain the dog with proper behaviourist (since if they get rid of this dog the behaviour will repeat with another dog til they realise what needs to be done pack order and all), or rehome to a JRT group who can rehab the dog and place it in an appropriate home where it will be disciplined or pts if both options are not feasible BUT they need to not get another til understanding dog/human hierachy. A subordinate to human dog would never ever be aggressive once a human steps in and takes control and if it did accidentally react (persephone comment above)and bite it would immediately let go and turn very submissive for fear of the alpha dogs reaction. Last year when I was dropping a dog off for desexing I was sitting at the vets in the waiting room, listening and watching as this lady held her little puppy at the counter. She had him cradled in her arms. He was there to have his vaccination. (he was only a bub, a wee little thing). Anyways, she went to sit him down on the counter infront of her and he snapped at her, I mean full on. he was protesting that he didn't want to be put onto the counter and wanted to be held. The lady owner proceeded to laugh and shy away from him as though she was afraid of him. I could not believe my eye's. She went to pick him up, he did it again. The vet nurse says "Does he do this all the time?" the lady replied "Yes, he's cranky all the time" and she laughed. The vet nurse started to tell her that she had to put that to a stop to that now before it got out of hand. The owner was not taking the vet nurse seriously, she clearly didn't have a clue. I had to say something. I told her it was not right, that it's not normal for him to be biting her like that and that if she didn't correct him now, it was going to get alot worse as he got older. I also told her that she has to let him know she is the boss, the pack leader - not him. With 2 people telling her the same thing, she seemed to take it a little more seriously but still, I am not sure if it sunk in or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Clyde you are right.. the owner picked up the dog in the wrong way. The dog still needs intensive training or to be PTS.. it was going to happen. Put it this way.. I was in QLD when it happened. My friend just text me a pic of her face.. no explanation of what happened and I replied saying: The dog bit you didn't it... And often, the owner needs training as well. So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MavericksMission Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Last year when I was dropping a dog off for desexing I was sitting at the vets in the waiting room, listening and watching as this lady held her little puppy at the counter. She had him cradled in her arms. He was there to have his vaccination. (he was only a bub, a wee little thing). Anyways, she went to sit him down on the counter infront of her and he snapped at her, I mean full on. he was protesting that he didn't want to be put onto the counter and wanted to be held. The lady owner proceeded to laugh and shy away from him as though she was afraid of him. I could not believe my eye's. She went to pick him up, he did it again. The vet nurse says "Does he do this all the time?" the lady replied "Yes, he's cranky all the time" and she laughed. The vet nurse started to tell her that she had to put that to a stop to that now before it got out of hand. The owner was not taking the vet nurse seriously, she clearly didn't have a clue. I had to say something. I told her it was not right, that it's not normal for him to be biting her like that and that if she didn't correct him now, it was going to get alot worse as he got older. I also told her that she has to let him know she is the boss, the pack leader - not him. With 2 people telling her the same thing, she seemed to take it a little more seriously but still, I am not sure if it sunk in or not. Willow was much like this when I first bought her home, she has a very sketchy past so I'm not sure what happened to start this behaviour. She used to think if the snapped & growled she would get her own way. Took a little bit of work, but she is perfectly fine now and knows that she won't get get her own way acting like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Last year when I was dropping a dog off for desexing I was sitting at the vets in the waiting room, listening and watching as this lady held her little puppy at the counter. She had him cradled in her arms. He was there to have his vaccination. (he was only a bub, a wee little thing). Anyways, she went to sit him down on the counter infront of her and he snapped at her, I mean full on. he was protesting that he didn't want to be put onto the counter and wanted to be held. The lady owner proceeded to laugh and shy away from him as though she was afraid of him. I could not believe my eye's. She went to pick him up, he did it again. The vet nurse says "Does he do this all the time?" the lady replied "Yes, he's cranky all the time" and she laughed. The vet nurse started to tell her that she had to put that to a stop to that now before it got out of hand. The owner was not taking the vet nurse seriously, she clearly didn't have a clue. I had to say something. I told her it was not right, that it's not normal for him to be biting her like that and that if she didn't correct him now, it was going to get alot worse as he got older. I also told her that she has to let him know she is the boss, the pack leader - not him. With 2 people telling her the same thing, she seemed to take it a little more seriously but still, I am not sure if it sunk in or not. When Daisy was a puppy she used to growl at me and bite me as a way of getting what she wanted - I will never forget the look on the instructor's face our first night at obedience club when they told me to put her in heel position (she was 4/5 months old at the time) and she refused so they said to pick her up and put her in heel position... she growled and bit me and they freaked out! The final straw came when I told her to get off the lounge and she refused and bit me hard on the hand. I got professional help and she's never growled at or bitten me again and will happily get off the lounge (LOL). She's not a nervous dog, and she doesn't have a bad temperament, but she's over confident, and I don't doubt in the 'wrong' home she would happily use aggression to get what she wants. You can see how easily it can all go wrong for some dog owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) When I first got Kaos as a puppy he would growl and bite me if I picked him up or cut his nails. He also tried to attack his collar when I first put it on him He is fine now (still not keen on his nails being done but doesn't try to bite). ETA: about the country and aggressive dog - I have had several people tell me that Zoe would be better off on a farm. Really? What farm would like a dog aggressive dog They all need to be able to work together - farms shoot dog aggro dogs. Edited January 27, 2012 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Funnily enough, I know of several people who's childhood dogs went to the magical farm. They later found out that the dog was PTS for one or several of those behavioural issues you mentioned. Clearly the parents didn't want to tell them the truth. I wonder how common that is??? My friend's boyfriend believed well into his late 20s that his family dog had "gone to live on a farm", until my friend heard him talking about it and went "surely you don't believe that your dog actually went to go and live on a farm? Did you ever see this farm?" - he seriously believe the dog was actually on a farm until they confronted his mum and she admitted she ran over the dog on the way to work one day Edited January 27, 2012 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Over a lot of years and a lot of dogs I've had 2 who were aggresive biters. First many years ago was a reasonably new breed with a strong independant character who pushed the boundries for the 12 years I had him, never afraid to use his teeth. Just took learning to read him, discipline and staying on top. Another more recently was fine with me, ok with the rest of the family, but would like to have shown aggression to any other person within range. Strong discipline had her the best showdog I ever had but another I had to keep on top of. Like most I've had some others who would have a try early but one good smack (not belting!) would soon change their mind and I've never had a dog who was 'hand shy', cringing etc all those dire things which are supposed to happen if you smack a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVERI Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 sorry i tried to get throw all the posts but there was just so many and im running out of time. so i hope i don't say something someone else has Now that the dog is known for biting and given that it was also on the face this is also now a council issue is it not. This dog would/should now be classed as a dangerous dog. Rehoming the dog with a childless family helps nothing, cause it wasn't a child he bit. If they care at all about the dog our the rest of the family they would be putting in time with professional help. is the dog acting so aggresive when there are no visiters or is this an attempt to protect his home given he was so good on holidays. at the end of the day unless your friend asks you what she should do you shouldn't tell het to have him PTS. if you are conserned for your children as i would be than don't go there. have her come visit you. or don't let your kids out. if a pen full time is nor suitable (which i wouldn't like but im not in this position) than how about penning the dog when there are visitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The only time a farm is a good place for some problems dogs is because there is more space to bury them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milly2 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Maybe the owners could use a muzzle on the dog when the children are out of site with it, they use them on greyhounds so why not any other dog that could bite. they are not used on greyhounds cause they bite people Maybe the owners could use a muzzle on the dog when the children are out of site with it, they use them on greyhounds so why not any other dog that could bite. they are not used on greyhounds cause they bite people Agreed! Greyhounds are such gorgeous animals - such a misconception about them though Sorry I should have explained myself better, and I do love greyhounds,and know they are a gentle dog by nature, what I should have said was, they muzzle greyhounds, and they don't bite for no reason so why not muzzle a dog that does bite, I don't understand why they have to muzzle greyhounds at all anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 ^I googled and got this: Why do greyhounds wear muzzles?According to a law introduced in Australia in 1927 Greyhounds must always wear a muzzle when in a public place. Initially the muzzle was introduced on the race track to prevent these valuable animals from injuring themselves during the general excitement at the track and their high spirited racing. We have been lobbying to have companion greyhounds made exempt from this law, as is the case in Victoria, because they are such a friendly, affectionate and loving breed and when wearing a muzzle people often incorrectly assume the opposite. I always thought it was to stop them from accidently killing fluffy cats and the like! LOL :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodoggies2001 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Maybe the owners could use a muzzle on the dog when the children are out of site with it, they use them on greyhounds so why not any other dog that could bite. they are not used on greyhounds cause they bite people Maybe the owners could use a muzzle on the dog when the children are out of site with it, they use them on greyhounds so why not any other dog that could bite. they are not used on greyhounds cause they bite people Agreed! Greyhounds are such gorgeous animals - such a misconception about them though Sorry I should have explained myself better, and I do love greyhounds,and know they are a gentle dog by nature, what I should have said was, they muzzle greyhounds, and they don't bite for no reason so why not muzzle a dog that does bite, I don't understand why they have to muzzle greyhounds at all anyway. I believe that greyhounds are muzzled because they chase lures and could well mistake a small dog or cat in public for same. Many years ago, when I was a child, we owned a pekinese and a fellow up the road had a racing greyhound and walked it unmuzzled. That same greyhound took to our peke ad almost killed him. Not the greyhound's fault, but definately the fault of the idiotic owner. He had a huge vet bill that he paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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