Desexing A Female Dog

[Inka3095]

Hey guys, apologies, I do feel this has probably been done to death on this forum, but am interested in the current thoughts regarding female canine desexing...

I have a 6 month old shiba inu I need to get desexed asap as she's probably heading for her first season and I've heard it's much better (healing time/surgical complications/mammary cancer risk) to do that before their first heat. I have signed a desexing contract as she's a pet only and I'm not trying to wriggle out of it, I know she's going to be desexed but I've been putting it off because I'm so worried it's not the best thing for her....

I know a lot of my concern is anecdotal/rumour/opinion and don't have a lot of actual science behind my trepidation.... But I've had quite a few fosters and have never had a simple, problem-free spey with any of them. One got an infection, one got an enormous seroma/wound dehiscence, one scarred really badly and another took a really really long time to recover from the anaesthetic/surgery. Whilst I loved my fosters, they weren't MY dogs; with my first actual 'forever' dog, I'm feeling even more worried about the whole thing.

I guess I'm after reassurance it's the right thing to do by her long term.....

These are the cons I'm aware of/have read/have been told about

1) surgical complications including recovery time and unnecessary/100% elective invasive procedure

2) spey incontinence

3) decreased energy levels/increased lethargy

4) increased propensity to become overweight (owing to the above I assume)

5) decreased performance in concentration tasks such as obedience training and decreased physical ability in dog sports

6) growth problems/joint problems

7) some reports of altered personality

8) 'dropping coat'/shedding more frequent and less 'cyclical' so more difficult to control

Pros:

1) decreased risk of tumours

2) eliminates risk of pymetra

3) no risk of unwanted puppies

4) more convenient for owners (less mess and less moody/unsettled dog during cycle)

5) no fear of being booed out of the dog park if you're silly enough to take your female dog there whilst on heat

So... given that list... please let me know which ones are ACTUALLY true and which are simply rumour?

Also, I have spoken to a vet who does sutures that are located under the suture-line and have no bits sticking out (I forgot to ask if they were dissolvable or not) which apparently discourages licking/chewing on the stray bits. Has anyone had any experience with these or should I stick to the traditional simple-interrupted sutures that you normally see?

Sigh. Sorry about the questions. Thanks DOL people <3

[Red Fox]

Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs Laura J. Sanborn, M.S.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Hope that helps you.

[SwaY]

All these things you should have thought about before you signed a desexing contract.

There is no direct yes or no answer, every bitch/dog is different but done studies say yes others no.

Contact your breeder.

[SwaY]

Double post

Edited December 11, 2012 by SwaY

[Inka3095]

There is no question of whether I will do it or not, and I have thought about it long and hard in the past as well, I'm just asking about current knowledge and opinions around the subject.

It doesn't matter if I hate the idea of it or not, I've signed the contract and I won't be breaking it.

[Mashlee08]

In my research I have also read about increased risk of osteacarcoma with early spey.

Anthropomorphising here but I see it as taking a boys or girls bits out before they hit puberty, think about how many physical and psychological changes happen through that period that you would essentially be taking away from them.

[cannibalgoldfish]

3) decreased energy levels/increased lethargy

Bwa ha ha haaaaaaaa.

If only desexing did that for mine :laugh:

as for "decreased performance in concentration tasks such as obedience training and decreased physical ability in dog sports" it's a shiba, come what may in regards to.... oh look! shiney thing over there!..........

Obviously my two shiba are boys so I can't help you with how it goes with a girl

[RubyBlue]

It is very much a personal decision based on pros and cons specific to your situation. I got my bitch speyed when she was older (3ish) I had booked her in but had to wait a few weeks after her last season and (typical murphys law) unfortunately she developed pyo so the spey was rather more expensive than initially anticipated.

Im into dog sports so having a dog well developed structurally is important to me. I am also fairly observant and have managed to pick up a mammary growth in my dog when it was half the size of a pea. If you spey after shes had a season I'd advise you to check monthly. FYI - mammary chain removal is really really painful surgery to recover from. I spent the first night sitting on the floor holding Milly in a standing position so she could sleep. Laying down put too much tension on the skin around the wound.

These are the cons I'm aware of/have read/have been told about

1) surgical complications including recovery time and unnecessary/100% elective invasive procedure

despite the pyo Milly recovered very quickly from the surgery. I dont remember what it was exactly but I remember deciding it was better to walk her slowly to tire her out rather than have her bounce around the house

2) spey incontinence

haven't had to deal with this.....yet?

3) decreased energy levels/increased lethargy

4) increased propensity to become overweight (owing to the above I assume)

Yes there was a marked decrease in her metabolism. Prior to her surgery I was shoveling high energy food into her like no bodies business now sue runs off the smell of an oily rag - dogs (and everything) get fat when they eat more than they burn - not because of desexing

5) decreased performance in concentration tasks such as obedience training and decreased physical ability in dog sports

haven't noticed anything along these lines - if anything her more stable mood makes training and competing more consistent

6) growth problems/joint problems

yep plenty of articles on this if you want to read them check out the articles thread

7) some reports of altered personality

I wouldnt think it changes personality - just stabilises mood

8) 'dropping coat'/shedding more frequent and less 'cyclical' so more difficult to control

Milly used to drop coat about 3 weeks before her seasons and she looked atrocious for a month or two afterwards. Her coat is probably softer and thicker now than what it was and she tends to shed it a few hairs at a time rather than one big dump twice a year - personally I prefer it

Pros:

1) decreased risk of tumours

Just mammary and ovarian I believe - to be honest I'd still be checking anyway, I check my boy too

2) eliminates risk of pymetra

I remember reading something about stump pyo??? Not sure on the conditions it occurs under....

3) no risk of unwanted puppies

who doesn't want puppies :p

I never had a problem or even a close call - guess if there were lots of roaming entire males in your area it might be a concern. You can also use a supralorin (sp?) implant I believe. Does it eliminate seasons? Someone on here will know...

4) more convenient for owners (less mess and less moody/unsettled dog during cycle)

Yup. No missed training days. No special drives to the park at 4am to exercise her. No blood to clean up.

5) no fear of being booed out of the dog park if you're silly enough to take your female dog there whilst on heat

Yeah well if your silly enough.....

So... given that list... please let me know which ones are ACTUALLY true and which are simply rumour?

Also, I have spoken to a vet who does sutures that are located under the suture-line and have no bits sticking out (I forgot to ask if they were dissolvable or not) which apparently discourages licking/chewing on the stray bits. Has anyone had any experience with these or should I stick to the traditional simple-interrupted sutures that you normally see?

Sigh. Sorry about the questions. Thanks DOL people <3

Edited December 11, 2012 by RubyBlue

[Jed]

I would desex, but the optimum age would when she has finished growing. If the same vet did those speys which were problematical, I would find another - better - vet.

The other downside is that desexed dogs often grow very big coats.

[Inka3095]

Thanks so far guys. So for a shiba sized dog, when would be best age be? That is, when is a dog her size fully grown/mature? And Is leaving her to have her first season and the risks associated outweighed by not early desexing?

[dancinbcs]

Thanks so far guys. So for a shiba sized dog, when would be best age be? That is, when is a dog her size fully grown/mature? And Is leaving her to have her first season and the risks associated outweighed by not early desexing?

If you can keep her safely confined then I prefer them to have a season first and spey around 12 months. If you do let her have a season and she is accidently mated, you can still spey her a week or so after her season. There is no need to have an unwanted litter. The benefits of desexing outweigh not having it done and even breeding bitches are usually speyed after their last litter. The only real decision is what age. Oh and find a better vet. Routine speys should not have complications and the scar should fade to a fine line. If you tell us what area you are in we can suggest good vets close to you.

[BlackJaq]

I just got my Weimaraner bitch spayed a couple of week ago and so far no issues. She healed nicely and I took her external stitches out myself without a problem (have done many stitches on people and dog in the past so I knew what I was looking at, drive to vet would have been a 120 km round trip so I would have only done it if it was not healed to my satisfaction or infection etc was apparent). The internal stitches were dissolvable.

Before the spay I had a world of trouble keeping my bitch at a decent weight and I have noticed some increase in condition since the spay. Makes sense, since she is no longer expending energy on cycles etc. She has free access to kibble all day and I am sure if her weight should become an issue, simply feeding her a ration instead of free access should not be too difficult.

We had no issues with licking/chewing the wound because Foxy is so anxious to always do what I say. I actually caught her licking it just after we got home and told her to top and after that she actually didn't touch it at all, which turned out to be an issue because if he laid on the dirt she would not clean it up afterward (because I had said not to *sigh*) so I had to clean it and disinfect it myself :p Needless to say, I was watching her like a hawk to make sure she didn't get any horse manure and what-not on it until the stitches came out :p

Foxy was nearly 2 when I got her done, so she has had several seasons and even though she was not quite fully grown I feel she was reasonably mature (physically). I had no trouble keeping her separate from other dogs during her season, but we live out of town and own guns, so no loose entire dog problem here.

I have not noticed any chance in personality except the slight naughtiness that is expected at this age. She seems to be developing normally and around this time is when the guarding instincts are supposed to develop, which seems to be happening normal so far. She is still trainable like before and I have not noticed her concentration waning. Obviously she has some off days where she is ignoring things she already knows but I expect that is probably age related.

It's probably too early to tell if there are any physical issues caused by the spay.

Edited December 12, 2012 by BlackJaq

[tdierikx]

Biggest pro for early desexing is that the little darlings don't seem to notice that they have had surgery - up and wanting to play almost as soon as they have woken up from the anaesthetic...

As for the health concerns both for and against - they are both equally worrying, so I'd be going with my gut on what you think is best for your dog.

T.

[GeckoTree]

The only thing that happened with my old girl is a stitch was missed at removal, they didn't use dissolvables for the external, but I picked it out anyway, I guess some would go on to have a meltdown or something.

Edited December 12, 2012 by GeckoTree

[julesluvscavs]

Ive had all the female dogs that I've owned desexed, some when they were youngish, others when they have been older. I've been through it with a foster dog as well. I am happy to say I have never experienced any major or life changing problems as a result. Maybe I've just been very lucky :)

One of my dogs had a belly button hernia repaired as well at the same time with no issues :)

Edited December 12, 2012 by Jules♥Cavs

[minimax]

I had my female pug desexed at 6 monthsm and she had a belly button hernia fixed at the same time. She's now 14 months and there is definetly no decreased energy levels, she sheds less than my other male (neutered) dog, is very lean and muscley, and had no issues post-surgery. The hardest part was keeping her quiet after the surgery because the next day she wanted to be back swimming and jumping up and down fromt he beds, and I was worried she'd rip her stitches out.

She has no identifiable scar, the hair grew back over it quickly and you'd never know anything happened. But I never considered not getting her done - I actually wanted to get her done before 6 months but vet was of the "6 month desexing" view.

[Alyosha]

For a Shiba I would be happy with 9-12 months growth wise. Having lived with bitches in season I would prefer to do a pet bitch before a season as they can be unpredicably feral and prone to trying to escape and getting injured in the process etc.

I have had rescue bitches of various crossbreds done from 8 weeks old with no side effects. In a large breed like mine I woud wait until 18-24 months, but first season in my breed is expected around 18 months. It's not unheard of but surprising to have it before then.

[Loving my Oldies]

There is the good, the bad and the ugly in all sorts of procedures. If you feel better at waiting until you girl is a bit more mature, do. The only caveat, I would offer is that please ensure you are able to confine her safely: for the point of view of any males getting to her and from her getting out.

Should the worst happen and a mating does take places, there is a "morning after" vaccination.

[Rebanne]

Did your breeder stipulate a "best time" or age desexing had to be done by? Best to go back and talk to the breeder.

[RiverStar-Aura]

To me it seems a bit odd buying a female puppy before having these questions sorted out, especially with the experiences you've had with desexing in the past.

Both my two dogs, a small terrier and medium sized cross breed have been desexed before 6 months and had no problems. The terrier is female and the hardest part was keeping her quiet whilst the wound healed -- no stitches needed removing as dissolvable inner stitches used and surgical glue for the outer layer.

Cross breed is a boy and easy castration.

No loss of energy in either dog -- both full of crazy zoomies!!