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Perfume

Interrogation By Breeder

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I wanted a labrador boy, preferably not yellow as I'm a lousy housekeeper and I have dark carpets. :D I indicated a preference for a Choc boy.

I made it very clear however that I valued temperament and health over looks. I wanted a chilled out dog with good hip and elbow scores and screened negative for labrador issues EIC etc).

I lurked here for a year, learning.

I got offered a girl but got a bad vibe from the breeder.

I kept ini contact with my 4 top breeders - all of whom didn't have litters on the ground but who's willingness to 'interrogate' me indicated that they took great care and pride in their dogs, and gave me a good feeling that they'd be available if I ran into issues.

I WANTED a breeder to take the time to ask me about my lifestyle, my health, my home and details about how I live. I WANTED them to find me a dog that would suit my needs and who I coukd handle. While I did express a colour preference, I also stressed over and over again that I would take any pup who could live in our family.

I got lucky - though some might say I dudnt, since instead of a cute chubby lard ball of squishiness, I got a 6 month old pup who'd clearly lived most of his time outside.

But temperament? Oh my gosh, he's perfect. He's a little cow-hocked and is learning inside manners but if if if been rigid - Ernie wouldn't be mine.

The breeder did a fantastic job of matching him to us, and getting to know me and knowing how much I valued temperament over a cute little fur ball. She knew I was happy to take an older dog if it ticked the personality boxes. We emailed back and forth for six months. I keot get apprised of every thing in my life that could affect her pup's welfare (cancer, divorce).

I'm glad she took the time to give a crap. Her pup will never be rehomed due to behavioural issues or because he isn't pretty enough or because he's a naughty boy sometimes.

I've says it before - patience. Sure, ask the breeder all the questions you want, but if you want a particular pup - you need to be prepared to answer questions about yourself.

Or you can buy a pup off Gumtree.

Your choice.

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Steve   

Well I don't have questionnaires and I don't require checks or photos but I do talk a lot and listen a lot - if there is something in our conversations that makes me hesitate or not trust you then its no dog. You dont get to choose unless its a breeding pup. I show you the one you can have if you dont like it you dont take it.

Over the 40 years Ive been breeding Ive had a couple who didnt turn out the way they should have but that was the result of life changes which no one could have anticipated and a yard or where they lived had nothing to do with it. If I dont trust you no inspection would change my mind. Some of the best people Ive ever met own my dogs and several travel to visit me and are great mates - sharing with me their puppy and dog stories for a decade and a half until they come back for another.

One of my sons recently purchased a pure bred dog fro m a breeder who is advertising on dogz who had him jumping through all manner of hoops - as she was from another state she sent her aunt to his place to check out his home and see if the kids were feral and his yard and neighbourhood before he got the tick of approval . When the pup arrived 2 weeks ago I went with him to pick it up from the airport . It has an over shot jaw which was noted on the vet certificate by the breeder's vet but never mentioned to my son before the pup came home, it had ears full of ear mite and it was full off round worm. when my son went back and said "hey you didnt tell me I was paying $3500 for a pup with a crook jaw and it has ear mite a war broke out and the breeder said none of his issues matter as he wanted a pet and thats what he got. Hung up and now appears to have no interest what ever in the pup's life or who it is living with for the future.

i want to have relationships with my puppy buyers born out of a mutual interest and trust and respect way into the future so when I speak with them thats what Im listening for - I don't need to start that off by making demands which make no difference to the type of people they are and how they will love and look after one of my dogs for the whole of the dog's life. Seriously how could I possibly tell someone will love my pup forever,stay in touch and see me as a safety net by looking at photos of them and where they live?

Edited by Steve

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Rebanne   

Or you can buy a pup off Gumtree.

I sold a pup from my last litter via Gumtree, believe me they didn't get said pup any easier then if they had contacted me via DOL. It's not where you sell the pup from, it's how you vet the buyer. Some of my worst enquiries came via DOL listings, the very worst was one from Gumtree but they were all fairly close.

I google people's email addresses to start with. Then I google earth their home address.

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she was from another state she sent her aunt to his place to check out his home and see if the kids were feral and his yard and neighbourhood before he got the tick of approval . When the pup arrived 2 weeks ago I went with him to pick it up from the airport .

Buying from interstate is always fraught with risk.

It has an over shot jaw which was noted on the vet certificate by the breeder's vet but never mentioned to my son before the pup came home, it had ears full of ear mite and it was full off round worm. when my son went back and said "hey you didnt tell me I was paying $3500 for a pup with a crook jaw and it has ear mite a war broke out and the breeder said none of his issues matter as he wanted a pet and thats what he got. Hung up and now appears to have no interest what ever in the pup's life or who it is living with for the future.

Australian consumer law still applies - he didn't get what he paid for - he could send the puppy back and ask for his money back. If he'd gone there to pick the puppy up - he could have looked at it and left it there.

It does cut both ways, the breeder has to do their research and the buyer has to do their research. Just because the breeder has a pretty website with FIGJAM testimonials on it - doesn't mean they're responsible. Same with the buyer - you have to find a way to verify what they say from some other source.

Edited by Mrs Rusty Bucket

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Kirislin   
she was from another state she sent her aunt to his place to check out his home and see if the kids were feral and his yard and neighbourhood before he got the tick of approval . When the pup arrived 2 weeks ago I went with him to pick it up from the airport .

Buying from interstate is always fraught with risk.

It has an over shot jaw which was noted on the vet certificate by the breeder's vet but never mentioned to my son before the pup came home, it had ears full of ear mite and it was full off round worm. when my son went back and said "hey you didnt tell me I was paying $3500 for a pup with a crook jaw and it has ear mite a war broke out and the breeder said none of his issues matter as he wanted a pet and thats what he got. Hung up and now appears to have no interest what ever in the pup's life or who it is living with for the future.

Australian consumer law still applies - he didn't get what he paid for - he could send the puppy back and ask for his money back. If he'd gone there to pick the puppy up - he could have looked at it and left it there.

It does cut both ways, the breeder has to do their research and the buyer has to do their research. Just because the breeder has a pretty website with FIGJAM testimonials on it - doesn't mean they're responsible. Same with the buyer - you have to find a way to verify what they say from some other source.

This really struck a chord with me. I was talking to a breeder recently who said that she was very proud that her lines had been health tested for 4 generations, but when I asked her what health tests she suddenly became very vague, and I never did find out what they'd been tested for, or if they'd been found clear because she ceased contact with me. Talk's cheap.

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Rebanne   

Talk's cheap.

I recently had a DNA test done on my pup but only got an email back with the result. Sure I could print it out and give out the lab's number to verify the result but I would have much rather had a piece of paper in my hand. Still tossing up on whether to have the test done again OS so I do get that paper. Saying that; I could also print up a nice report I am sure.

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Steve   
she was from another state she sent her aunt to his place to check out his home and see if the kids were feral and his yard and neighbourhood before he got the tick of approval . When the pup arrived 2 weeks ago I went with him to pick it up from the airport .

Buying from interstate is always fraught with risk.

It has an over shot jaw which was noted on the vet certificate by the breeder's vet but never mentioned to my son before the pup came home, it had ears full of ear mite and it was full off round worm. when my son went back and said "hey you didnt tell me I was paying $3500 for a pup with a crook jaw and it has ear mite a war broke out and the breeder said none of his issues matter as he wanted a pet and thats what he got. Hung up and now appears to have no interest what ever in the pup's life or who it is living with for the future.

Australian consumer law still applies - he didn't get what he paid for - he could send the puppy back and ask for his money back. If he'd gone there to pick the puppy up - he could have looked at it and left it there.

It does cut both ways, the breeder has to do their research and the buyer has to do their research. Just because the breeder has a pretty website with FIGJAM testimonials on it - doesn't mean they're responsible. Same with the buyer - you have to find a way to verify what they say from some other source.

O.K. First up most of my puppies are sold interstate and I never meet the buyer - I would never treat a puppy buyer the way she treated him and what sort of registered breeder slips in a dud without saying so because he didnt go and pick it up personally - no excuses she was rotten and based on how she presented herself clearly should have known better. Im not sure if he went there himself that he would have the nounce to see the problem with the jaw and the ears any way . He has certainly no experience with rotten jaw lines or knowing what ear mites look like and in my opinion most puppy buyers wouldnt either. He has grown up with purebred dogs and me but Ive never had a dog with a rotten jaw or ear mites to educate him on what to look out for. So for him going there without someone who knew what they were looking for would have had the same risk - he was happy to simply trust the breeder would do the right thing. I went over the pup and read the vet report as soon as it came out of the crate but if I hadnt have been there he wouldnt have known there was a problem until his first vet visit - even the fact that the vet report had a bad jaw circled didnt bother him until I said what it meant. - and its not just a tad under shot it's really undershot

I would never sell a pup with a fault or any kind of issue without telling the buyer and allowing them to make an informed decision on whether they still wanted to take the pup. the one thing that buyers should be sure of when they buy from a registered breeder is that they get a pup with all the boxes ticked.

He is aware of what the law is but once that pup was in his arms it was never going to live anywhere else and if a buyer is what we say we want them to be no one is going to simply send it back as if it is a faulty TV .He knew he was buying a living being and will honour his obligation to take it now it is his but the breeder sucks.

My point is doing research wont help because human nature is the wild card . He did his research alright and everything he saw was what I saw with no reason to suspect that the breeder should be drummed out of SA dogs

Edited by Steve

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This thread started off with my being surprised at the 20 questions I was asked, why was I surprised? Because it never happened before. I have purchased dogs from Registered Breeders before and have not been asked a single thing so there was an element of surprise BUT the thing I found most off-putting wasn't so much the questions being asked but the manner in which they were asked albeit I was taken aback when asked for personal photos of myself, lol. Had I been a regular poster here on DOL I may not have been surprised with the questioning as I would have expected it. One final thing, as a breeder, do ask question but try and adopt the right approach, being abrasive and suspicious is not the way to go about it. If you've been burned before, I genuinely feel for you but don't go tarring everyone with the same dirty brush.

Gee you are coming across as very rude. If you had ever bred a litter you would know just how precious our babies are to us. Good breeders put their life and soul into their pups, it tears us apart having to sell them to strangers. But if you want your breed to go on then you have to breed and you have to sell. Just because you think you are a wonderful owner doesn't cut any ice with me. You have to prove you are good enough for one of my pups to get one. The mere fact you have bought pups before without having to answer any questions makes me wonder just how ethical those breeders were.

I don't think the OP was being rude. Of course breeders should ask questions of the people buying their pups but I would find it really off-putting if a breeder asked me for photos of myself, what does that have to do with anything? I can understand wanting to see if there yard/home is suitable but personal photos of the buyer? And asking for their vet's number? I usually only ever see my vet once a year for vaccs, he wouldn't know anything about me apart from my dog's name. And before I got my dog, I wouldn't have had a vet for them to ring anyway as I'd never had a dog to take the the vet before. It's so over the top and weird, and as someone else said, it puts people off buying from breeders when they can just walk into a pet shop.

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megan_   

For those that use Google Earth, you know that pics of most Australian suburbs are many, many years old right? My property was subdivided about 5 years ago, yet it still shows a single property.

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tdierikx   

The National is in NSW next year, so you may be able to meet sooner than you think :thumbsup:

Whattttttttttttttttttttttttttt monthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh???????????????????????

:)

27th - 30th March, Orchard Hills :wave:

Ummm... my birthday is 25th March... *grin*

You guys need to remind me when it's on though, because I'm crap at marking anything on a calendar...

T.

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Rebanne   

For those that use Google Earth, you know that pics of most Australian suburbs are many, many years old right? My property was subdivided about 5 years ago, yet it still shows a single property.

yeah, but it gives you an idea cause not all are so old.

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no excuses she was rotten and based on how she presented herself clearly should have known better.

I agree.

He is aware of what the law is but once that pup was in his arms it was never going to live anywhere else and if a buyer is what we say we want them to be no one is going to simply send it back as if it is a faulty TV .He knew he was buying a living being and will honour his obligation to take it now it is his but the breeder sucks.

So you reward the breeder for doing something dodgy. And now you complain? Unfortunately - this just means they will probably do it to someone else.

My point is doing research wont help because human nature is the wild card . He did his research alright and everything he saw was what I saw with no reason to suspect that the breeder should be drummed out of SA dogs

So you advocate doing no research at all and accepting puppies that are not as advertised. What if you'd paid money for an Amstaff and got sent a JRT. Would you still accept it? Really?

I know there are several breeders in SA that I'd call puppy farmers. I can't believe their dogs can live out in sheds in paddocks and get enough human time when they have so many of them. They might even comply with RSPCA hygiene requirements and SACA and ANKC ethics - but I can't believe when one breeder is listing more than 100 puppies a year that they're not a puppy farm. Doesn't take a lot of research to find these out.

All you'd have to do is ask anyone here who is a SACA member to check their journals for that breeder and how many puppies they have listed. Some of them even have photos of their puppy shelters on their websites and you can see for yourself it's a puppy farm.

And did you write a formal complaint to SACA about what this breeder did? No? Then you allow the problem to continue.

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Malakita   

One of my sons recently purchased a pure bred dog fro m a breeder who is advertising on dogz who had him jumping through all manner of hoops - as she was from another state she sent her aunt to his place to check out his home and see if the kids were feral and his yard and neighbourhood before he got the tick of approval . When the pup arrived 2 weeks ago I went with him to pick it up from the airport . It has an over shot jaw which was noted on the vet certificate by the breeder's vet but never mentioned to my son before the pup came home, it had ears full of ear mite and it was full off round worm. when my son went back and said "hey you didnt tell me I was paying $3500 for a pup with a crook jaw and it has ear mite a war broke out and the breeder said none of his issues matter as he wanted a pet and thats what he got. Hung up and now appears to have no interest what ever in the pup's life or who it is living with for the future.

i want to have relationships with my puppy buyers born out of a mutual interest and trust and respect way into the future so when I speak with them thats what Im listening for - I don't need to start that off by making demands which make no difference to the type of people they are and how they will love and look after one of my dogs for the whole of the dog's life. Seriously how could I possibly tell someone will love my pup forever,stay in touch and see me as a safety net by looking at photos of them and where they live?

This sounds very similar to what we went through last year. That is one hell of an unethical breeder! Your son has my deepest empathy.

Did she not send any photos of the puppy before you went to pick the puppy up?

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Malakita   
no excuses she was rotten and based on how she presented herself clearly should have known better.

I agree.

He is aware of what the law is but once that pup was in his arms it was never going to live anywhere else and if a buyer is what we say we want them to be no one is going to simply send it back as if it is a faulty TV .He knew he was buying a living being and will honour his obligation to take it now it is his but the breeder sucks.

So you reward the breeder for doing something dodgy. And now you complain? Unfortunately - this just means they will probably do it to someone else.

My point is doing research wont help because human nature is the wild card . He did his research alright and everything he saw was what I saw with no reason to suspect that the breeder should be drummed out of SA dogs

I agree with the research part not helping. I thought I had done my research. Found what I thought was a responsible, ethical and reputable breeder. And this was my second pedigree puppy in less than15 months. I thought I knew what I was doing. I was so sucked in in the end.

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I've had personal recommendations for two breeds and have had another for a third breed I'm interested in (and visited when I happened to be in NZ). I find that's one of the best ways to find a good breeder. I couldn't ask for more open and honest people nor more support.

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Ummm... my birthday is 25th March... *grin*

You guys need to remind me when it's on though, because I'm crap at marking anything on a calendar...

T.

Already marked!!!!! March is my birth month.

Any and ALL fesitvies are duly noted.

The addition of one Rotti Show makes the month sound like it might be a cracker!!!!

Woo! Woo!

:thumbsup:

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Perfume   

Well I don't have questionnaires and I don't require checks or photos but I do talk a lot and listen a lot - if there is something in our conversations that makes me hesitate or not trust you then its no dog. You dont get to choose unless its a breeding pup. I show you the one you can have if you dont like it you dont take it.

Over the 40 years Ive been breeding Ive had a couple who didnt turn out the way they should have but that was the result of life changes which no one could have anticipated and a yard or where they lived had nothing to do with it. If I dont trust you no inspection would change my mind. Some of the best people Ive ever met own my dogs and several travel to visit me and are great mates - sharing with me their puppy and dog stories for a decade and a half until they come back for another.

One of my sons recently purchased a pure bred dog fro m a breeder who is advertising on dogz who had him jumping through all manner of hoops - as she was from another state she sent her aunt to his place to check out his home and see if the kids were feral and his yard and neighbourhood before he got the tick of approval . When the pup arrived 2 weeks ago I went with him to pick it up from the airport . It has an over shot jaw which was noted on the vet certificate by the breeder's vet but never mentioned to my son before the pup came home, it had ears full of ear mite and it was full off round worm. when my son went back and said "hey you didnt tell me I was paying $3500 for a pup with a crook jaw and it has ear mite a war broke out and the breeder said none of his issues matter as he wanted a pet and thats what he got. Hung up and now appears to have no interest what ever in the pup's life or who it is living with for the future.

i want to have relationships with my puppy buyers born out of a mutual interest and trust and respect way into the future so when I speak with them thats what Im listening for - I don't need to start that off by making demands which make no difference to the type of people they are and how they will love and look after one of my dogs for the whole of the dog's life. Seriously how could I possibly tell someone will love my pup forever,stay in touch and see me as a safety net by looking at photos of them and where they live?

Beautifully spoken, Steve. I was quite touched by your post.

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Perfume   
she was from another state she sent her aunt to his place to check out his home and see if the kids were feral and his yard and neighbourhood before he got the tick of approval . When the pup arrived 2 weeks ago I went with him to pick it up from the airport .

Buying from interstate is always fraught with risk.

It has an over shot jaw which was noted on the vet certificate by the breeder's vet but never mentioned to my son before the pup came home, it had ears full of ear mite and it was full off round worm. when my son went back and said "hey you didnt tell me I was paying $3500 for a pup with a crook jaw and it has ear mite a war broke out and the breeder said none of his issues matter as he wanted a pet and thats what he got. Hung up and now appears to have no interest what ever in the pup's life or who it is living with for the future.

Australian consumer law still applies - he didn't get what he paid for - he could send the puppy back and ask for his money back. If he'd gone there to pick the puppy up - he could have looked at it and left it there.

It does cut both ways, the breeder has to do their research and the buyer has to do their research. Just because the breeder has a pretty website with FIGJAM testimonials on it - doesn't mean they're responsible. Same with the buyer - you have to find a way to verify what they say from some other source.

This really struck a chord with me. I was talking to a breeder recently who said that she was very proud that her lines had been health tested for 4 generations, but when I asked her what health tests she suddenly became very vague, and I never did find out what they'd been tested for, or if they'd been found clear because she ceased contact with me. Talk's cheap.

Same thing happened to me, I think I've already mentioned this in a previous post. The breeder was bragging about the health tests but when I questioned her further, it turned out that only the sire had been health checked, the dam wasn't and the pup was a carrier. She then changed the wording on the ad the next morning. There was no further mention of any health checks whatsoever.

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Perfume   
no excuses she was rotten and based on how she presented herself clearly should have known better.

I agree.

He is aware of what the law is but once that pup was in his arms it was never going to live anywhere else and if a buyer is what we say we want them to be no one is going to simply send it back as if it is a faulty TV .He knew he was buying a living being and will honour his obligation to take it now it is his but the breeder sucks.

So you reward the breeder for doing something dodgy. And now you complain? Unfortunately - this just means they will probably do it to someone else.

My point is doing research wont help because human nature is the wild card . He did his research alright and everything he saw was what I saw with no reason to suspect that the breeder should be drummed out of SA dogs

So you advocate doing no research at all and accepting puppies that are not as advertised. What if you'd paid money for an Amstaff and got sent a JRT. Would you still accept it? Really?

I know there are several breeders in SA that I'd call puppy farmers. I can't believe their dogs can live out in sheds in paddocks and get enough human time when they have so many of them. They might even comply with RSPCA hygiene requirements and SACA and ANKC ethics - but I can't believe when one breeder is listing more than 100 puppies a year that they're not a puppy farm. Doesn't take a lot of research to find these out.

All you'd have to do is ask anyone here who is a SACA member to check their journals for that breeder and how many puppies they have listed. Some of them even have photos of their puppy shelters on their websites and you can see for yourself it's a puppy farm.

And did you write a formal complaint to SACA about what this breeder did? No? Then you allow the problem to continue.

This horrifies and disgusts me. I won't bother going into the "how can people do this" because nothing shocks me any more. I just hope Karma catches up with them.

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cavNrott   

Well, all I can say is that I must be a lousy dog breeder!

Only been breeding for 38 years, sold pups interstate and overseas and never asked for photos of yard or people (in fact I would probably be suspicious if people sent them).

I try to get to know all my puppy buyers either personally or by correspondence but I find that choosing pups at 8 weeks old is largely a shot in the dark and, for myself, I just keep the one that appeals to me. For others, I let them choose for themselves - with my input - then i can't be held responsible if they choose the wrong one!

Have I made mistakes? ofcourse I have, but I am just a poor dog breeder trying to give people the puppy they are looking for and, on the whole, I think I have been successful.

You can't get hold of a rescue dog without house check first, why is it so taboo for a breeder to want to see their babies going to a safe dog friendly home?

Yes, Dona, I agree.

No way would I ever have allowed one of my rescues go without a house check, usually done by me.

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