lvdgs Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi, I am planning to get a Border Collie. Looks like things have changed since I got my latest GSD that is 11 y.o. or may be this is something related to Border Collies only? Breeders are asking for a deposit and sale with limit registration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi lvdgs, It's pretty standard for breeders to sell pets on limited register, and often with a requirement they be desexed. If you want a dog on main register you will most likely have to build up a strong relationship with the breeder beforehand. Asking for a deposit depends on the individual breeder and it's up to you whether you are happy pay one or prefer to look around for a breeder who doesn't ask for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvdgs Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi lvdgs, It's pretty standard for breeders to sell pets on limited register, and often with a requirement they be desexed. If you want a dog on main register you will most likely have to build up a strong relationship with the breeder beforehand. Asking for a deposit depends on the individual breeder and it's up to you whether you are happy pay one or prefer to look around for a breeder who doesn't ask for one. Thanks Simply Grand, Asking for a deposit is a bit too much, especially if you can't visit and play with the puppies yourself. A requirement for a dog to be desexed is mad. I am the one to make this decision. This decision will be based on the dog's temperament or health reasons etc, not because a particular breeder doesn't want competition. We are talking about living thing, in most cases a member of a family. Perhaps I am alone thinking along these lines.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The desexing request is not because the breeder doesn't want competition... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It's a pretty normal request. If you're not happy about it maybe keep looking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 As I inderstsnd it, breeders sell pet dogs on limited register because they didn't make the cut for a show dog or as a breeding animal -- hence 'not bettering the breed'. Or am I confused? Ernie has heaps of champions in his ancestry and to a layman like me - he's beautuful. However he is slightly cow hocked, so why pass that on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Paying a deposit proves you're serious and aren't going to leave them in the lurch. I paid a $100 deposit, which is a pretty small portion of the full purchase price. I'm sure breeders deal with a lot of time wasters who 100% definitely want a puppy, and then bail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwoman Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi lvdgs, It's pretty standard for breeders to sell pets on limited register, and often with a requirement they be desexed. If you want a dog on main register you will most likely have to build up a strong relationship with the breeder beforehand. Asking for a deposit depends on the individual breeder and it's up to you whether you are happy pay one or prefer to look around for a breeder who doesn't ask for one. Thanks Simply Grand, Asking for a deposit is a bit too much, especially if you can't visit and play with the puppies yourself. A requirement for a dog to be desexed is mad. I am the one to make this decision. This decision will be based on the dog's temperament or health reasons etc, not because a particular breeder doesn't want competition. We are talking about living thing, in most cases a member of a family. Perhaps I am alone thinking along these lines.... Asking a small refundable deposit is OK, desexing is not to avoid competition, but I would not buy an already desexed baby or agree to young desexing if that is a condition of sale. Go elsewhere. There are many reasons why a pup is on limited registration. Just remember that a succeessful ethical breeder's last pick of litter is often better than another breeder's first pick, they are not necessarily second rate citizens!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hi, I am planning to get a Border Collie. Looks like things have changed since I got my latest GSD that is 11 y.o. or may be this is something related to Border Collies only? Breeders are asking for a deposit and sale with limit registration. Such requests tend to wean out the tyre kickers and people looking to "regain the purchase price" by producing litters of their own. If you have concerns about these terms of purchase, talk them over with the breeder whose pups you are interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I have to say I'm against leaving deposits on young pups. Mostly because how do they know how the pups will turn out, and as far as I"m concerned I'm not sure that the best pup for me can be chosen before 6-8 weeks. I find it crazy when people are being sold pups at 2 weeks of age - that is obviously only about colour or markings, as temperament won't really be known and even conformation won't be well known. Anyway, I have BC's and have never had to leave a deposit. Also haven't had a desexing contract (although one of mine is desexed as she's on limit and there was never any intent for her to be a bredding dog anyway). I find a lot of BC's are on limit, once you get to know the breeder well you may be able to get one on main fully in your name. Alternatively you get one on main but in coownership, that isn't uncommon in BC's. And it really depends on where you're getting one from and what you want to do with it. I looked at who was offering main reg on their BC puppies and to be honest there weren't many I'd ever get a dog from. I've found that those who I consider to be good breeders tend not to advertise who will be on main/limit but instead have a conversation with each buyer about what it is they are after and see what the best way is for everyone involved to be happy with the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Agree PME. To me it's a big red flag if all pups in a litter are available on Main Register. I believe it would be an extremely rare litter in which all the pups were of show/breeding quality. Fogs on the Limited Register can do any of the dog sports .. they are just not eligible for conformation showing or breeding. I too would not get a BC from anyone who wanted to do juvenile deeming on a pup, especially one likely to be used for performance disciplines. You should have a good enough relationship with a breeder to discuss time of deeming. I'm sure you know, but a key is only to consider a breeder who can provide evidence of satisfactory.genetic status of the parents of the litter in relation to CL, CEA and TNS. I also am interested in parental and familial hip and elbow scores, and a mature eye test of the parents indicates a careful and thoughtful breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Totally agree with PME & Tassie. Well said guys☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Don't like the T's and C's, move on. Breeders can pick and choose who they sell pups to and any conditions they place on a sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 As I inderstsnd it, breeders sell pet dogs on limited register because they didn't make the cut for a show dog or as a breeding animal -- hence 'not bettering the breed'. Or am I confused? Not entirely accurate. The breeder puts the dog on limited because they don't want the dog to be bred from or shown for many reasons. My breed is the most in demand for puppy farmers, asian market & BYB's so they go with limited papers & desexed. Couple have gone to a trusted, long time breeder friend but many of the limited / desexed ones were certainly nice enough for show & breed. Unfortunately some dogs are on main register that shouldn't be shown or bred from. Back to original post I would advise never to put a deposit on an unborn litter or until you have met your puppy. Once you meet the breeder & puppies it is wise to place a deposit but not beforehand. Desexing contract is a common request & fair enough. If you want a show or breeding dog you should be honest & say so. If you don't believe in desexing dogs at all you need to find a breeder who agrees with this. Times change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Border Collies are being farmed for "rare colours" by the money-hungry, any breeder who does NOT care about their pups enough to want to keep them away from such a life probably isn't worth dealing with. Advertising all pet pups having a de-sexing contract (or will be sold de-sexed) is a good way of weeding out the non-genuine types who "just want a pet" but plan to knock out BYB litters. Find a breeder who breeds dogs you like, does the right health testing and who doesn't appear to be knocking out litter after litter and selling the whole lot on "Mains" to the first person with the cash. Ignore anything else about their advertising. Talk to them, discuss their dogs, discuss your expectations and you HONEST plans for the dog. You just never know what you might get offered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 As I inderstsnd it, breeders sell pet dogs on limited register because they didn't make the cut for a show dog or as a breeding animal -- hence 'not bettering the breed'. Or am I confused? Not entirely accurate. The breeder puts the dog on limited because they don't want the dog to be bred from or shown for many reasons. My breed is the most in demand for puppy farmers, asian market & BYB's so they go with limited papers & desexed. Couple have gone to a trusted, long time breeder friend but many of the limited / desexed ones were certainly nice enough for show & breed. Unfortunately some dogs are on main register that shouldn't be shown or bred from. .... Thank you. Clears up the confusion I had when the breeder phoned to ask if I'd had him desexed yet as she was thinking of asking if I wanted to stud him. I was scratching my head because he was sold on Limit. Seriously, apart from his slight slight SLIGHT hocks (and that's my opinion as to his 'defect'), Ernie is a traffic stopper. I've had loads of people ask me where I got him. Sorry to derail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 You can still title a dog in performance events on the limit register, so unless you want to show and/or breed limit is no drama. And if you do want to show or breed then it all becomes more complicated for the reasons people have mentioned. From the breeder end of things I'm not keen on deposits. While I know I can return one, I would not like to set up an expectation that someone had put cash down and therefore had a stake in the litter. I understand they are often used to weed out timewasters tho'. Borders are not a rare breed so keep moving until you find someone you can work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) All our pets go on limited & all must be spayed by a set age,if people don't like it then they get to go elsewhere . Dogs sold on mains is done so because the pet owner has been honest & both parties work to a mutual agreement on why they need mains papers . Our breed is also highly sort after & generally speaking the only ones who insist on mains papers are the ones who plan to just breed ,have no intentions of showing,competing or anything else ,Just want to join the canine & get a prefix. We have sold a few to show people on mains with no issues at all BUT pups are registered at 8 weeks & if they don't meet our criteria for mains they go on limited as any decent breeder does. We take a deposit once people have come out & viewed the pups,we don't have anyone view them until there microchipped. When the right pup is matched to the person they pay a holding fee & the pups chips is placed on the receipt,when they collect pup the chip is again checked to ensure it matches paperwork. We don't accept deposits as we have never had the need to too BUT i now plenty that do for all the right reasons . Yes many do now due to time wasters & they are becoming more & more common . Edited April 3, 2015 by showdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I have to say I'm against leaving deposits on young pups. Mostly because how do they know how the pups will turn out, and as far as I"m concerned I'm not sure that the best pup for me can be chosen before 6-8 weeks. I find it crazy when people are being sold pups at 2 weeks of age - that is obviously only about colour or markings, as temperament won't really be known and even conformation won't be well known. Anyway, I have BC's and have never had to leave a deposit. Also haven't had a desexing contract (although one of mine is desexed as she's on limit and there was never any intent for her to be a bredding dog anyway). I find a lot of BC's are on limit, once you get to know the breeder well you may be able to get one on main fully in your name. Alternatively you get one on main but in coownership, that isn't uncommon in BC's. And it really depends on where you're getting one from and what you want to do with it. I looked at who was offering main reg on their BC puppies and to be honest there weren't many I'd ever get a dog from. I've found that those who I consider to be good breeders tend not to advertise who will be on main/limit but instead have a conversation with each buyer about what it is they are after and see what the best way is for everyone involved to be happy with the outcome. Not all things are equal .My Maremma pups are treated and handled differently depending on what work they will be doing when they go home .Some are introduced to sheep, some to chickens and some are with us humans more in order to ensure when they go to their new home and are put in with the species they will live with for the rest of their lives that their bonding has commenced and experience tells me it benefits the new owner and the pup much more doing it this way . Its a major pain to consider all the work I put in getting a dog ready for sheep for example, for the people who said they wanted it to change their mind midstream - so I take a deposit. If you don't want to pay a deposit then you dont get one of my pups and you get the pup I choose for you based on your needs and the characteristics of the dog. I dont advertise my pups until Im sure they are alive and warm and healthy and I dont take a waiting list - unless its someone who already has one of my dogs - last time I kept a list there were almost a hundred on it .Its unusual for my Maremma pups to not be all sold and deposits paid by the time they are 4 weeks old. With my beagles I advertise them when they are two weeks old and you take the one I offer you and pay a deposit or you don't get one. Its rare for them not to be all sold with deposits on with in two weeks from me saying I have them. I get to be sure between when I first have contact and when the pup goes home to really get to know the person taking them and I know they feel comfortable with calling me in the middle of the night if they have a problem. I only place dogs on main register which pass all of my tests for breeding potential and conformation and you tell me up front that you may want to breed with it in the future and of course that you pass all of my tests during our conversation to own one of my puppies. All of this works for me if it doesn't work for you then there are other breeders I personally would prefer to place a deposit on a pup - many years ago I purchased a pup from a registered breeder and made agreements to have the pup handed over in about 3 weeks - she refused to take a deposit - gave me a spiel about how we needed to trust each other and how happy she was about her baby coming to live in such a lovely family that would love her etc . So the hubby and kids and I get all excited - go out and buy toys and stuff and chose a name and drool over the photo until 5 days before home time when I ring to get details on pick up and she simply told me she had sold it to someone else as she said now was entitled to do because I hadnt paid a deposit - who she felt would provide it with a better home - no notice , no apology no explanation just smack - no puppy. Our entire family was shattered and I have never forgiven her for the poor treatment she felt was acceptable .I would never consider buying a pup unless i had a deposit on it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I've always paid a deposit (with conditions)...works both ways IMO :) I wouldn't feel comfortable until a breeder accepted my deposit for the same reason as Steve points out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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