kelpiecuddles Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well I have to say I'm now kicking myself I didn't apply for my prefix a year or two ago just for the sake of securing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Register the prefix as a business, trademark it and then no one else can have it as a prefix until you are apprenticed enough to register it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 That seems like an odd rule. What if the bitch purchased doesn't turn out as hoped or has some kind of complication prior to breeding resulting in a spey? Do they revoke your prefix or something? That does seem odd. I certainly didn't breed with the bitch I had when I got my prefix and no one has taken it from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Yes I would, in certain circumstances, as I have been there. I started with a dog as a pet. As he grew his breeders encouraged me to show him, owned in partnership. As he approached his title they had a new litter. I researched the bloodlines and thought that one day they might match my co-owned dog. I enquired about getting a bitch and was open about my possible breeding aspirations. As we had such a good relationship it worked. They trusted me with a bitch that may have been deserving of the honour of being a foundation bitch. She got her title at a year old. But she continued to mature and I continued to learn. When she was two I applied for and was granted my prefix. When she was three I bred her to my co-owned dog with the blessings of my mentors. And the resulting litter far exceeded my expectations. They still do, and they are still maturing... People need to start somewhere. Trust and rapport can be built between people, and is sometimes hard to put into words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) In theory I could fudge it and use Josie's details as she's female, mains registered and the correct breed but she is neutered(which they don't know)and would not be what I would choose as a foundation bitch so it would be dishonest so it's not something I feel I could do. Edited January 14, 2014 by kelpiecuddles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well if you just want to secure your prefix, why no do the above? There is every chance your choice might not go through anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Which is really exactly why I would have preferred to get it in advance so I can use it as my overarching banner for my initial plans and know that it will stay as that if/when I do breed down the track. I may look in to that but it would be a complicated way to do it as obviously I would have but multiple spellings and variations in when doing ANKC app in the interests of securing as close as possible to my preferred, I could register what I really want as a business name and still not get it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Sounds like this rule has been set out by the pen pushers sitting around the board room..... Its almost the chicken and the egg scenario.....You can't get a prefix without having a Main Registered bitch..... so one wants to sell you a Main Registered Bitch without you having the breed prefix.....!!! It doesn't make sense that people can't sit the breed prefix requirements, pay the annual fees but that the prefix is held as inactive until they actually wish to start breeding. They then apply to have the prefix activated by transferring ownership or lease of the bitch into their names. There are two things that I suspect the Association is attempting.... 1. Prevent backyard breeders / puppy farms from grabbing ANKC prefix to then sell pups 'without papers' but giving the appearance of legitimate breeders. This is quite possible. 2. Becoming difficult for the ANKC to source prefixes that are not existing or close to existing... many of which may also be dormant prefixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Actually i think your hypothetical is making more out of a situation than need be. Many people get there first dog to show ,many at that point have no interest in breeding or holding a prefix . There are more important things for me than whether the person phoning has a prefix who is starting out . When people contact us about a show pup then thats where we start ,discussing about breeding comes up after we have decided whether there even committed to showing in the first place . Purchasing a mains dog is more than being a breeder its about doing all the right things before even considering breeding. 99% of people who contact us wanting a showdog don't even bother coming to a show ,often its just a ploy to get main papers ,Our pets are spayed anyway so no drama of people breeding . I have owned/co owned many top showdogs with awesome breeders & i have the same expectations in the way i treat them *& in reward the way they treat me .If people making contact can't show the same basic respect for learning even before they get the breed then we aren't interested in the show aspect.I say learning because our breed isn't wash & wear & it requires a very dedicated owner to do the work & we don't see it as a hardship to make time & see if your committed to it or not after all we won't sell someone something we wouldn't show . Personally i would be more put off by a total novice having a prefix & using that as a means of impressing a breeder Edited January 14, 2014 by showdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Maybe then those dormant prefixes need to be culled from the system, if they were never used to produce a dog under that prefix and the member owning the prefix is no longer an active ANKC member using their prefix in another legitimate way(such as it being part of their identification as a trainer working towards dog sports or whatever) their prefix simply becomes null and is then available to be used by someone or for something very similar to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Info has kind of been split between two threads here but earlier I did explain that I initially wanted it as part of what identified us in our training for working animals, therefore not having to change our name if/when we decided to move in to breeding. As in X dog trained by Y kennels. Edited January 14, 2014 by kelpiecuddles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 After a set time i think 25 you can protect your prefix ,never to be used again. International prefixs can also be protected & not used anywhere world wide . Prefix holders can also protest if they feel a new prefix sounds to similar or is spelt very similar often why it isn't simple getting what you want . Our business is our prefix but we had the prefix before our business & decided to use it but if we sell our business the name will not go with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 What do I do? They are happy to explain about who they are, why they like your dogs, etc but they haven't yet got a prefix yet because they tell you they can't get one yet because they need to get a bitch to breed first, what do you do? FAIL. They are either misinformed or attempting to mislead me (which is rather silly) I wonder why the hell they have told me that they can't get a prefix yet because they need to get a bitch to breed first. The first thing it suggests to me is that they clearly haven't done much homework on what it takes to be an ANKC registered breeder. Not a good start for an aspirant breeder. I have a breeder's prefix and I do not own an undesexed bitch. what she says. And no, they can't buy one. I have sold bitches to people who actively show and are seeking a possible foundation bitch, they will in time get their prefix if they decide to breed, for the time being they are exhibiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think the NSW rules might be you need a bitch on mains reg first before they will grant a prefix-the op was trying to figure that out earlier. If that is in fact their rule: - I would discuss what they really knew about the breed, did our ideas and ethics coincide, find out why they wanted to breed, and why they wanted a pup of mine - make sure they knew there was no money to be made from my breed, it doesn't have a huge pet demand or go for huge prices - check they didn't want to breed or cross breed for hunting - find out what their dog experience was more broadly - discuss the down sides of breeding, and check their whole family was happy with the idea, they could afford it and they had secure suitable accomodation - get a few references, preferably people we both knew and including the breeder of their pet - talk about my inability to guarantee a pup will be suitable, I could only offer potential - talk about how I dislike the show scene but as it is the only objective ref point for the breed in Aust sadly some showing would be expected if she wanted to breed, but only to title . - if all that worked out arrange to meet, if physically possible. And then if I was satisfied, place a pup on coownership with a view to transferring over once I was confident enough. Forgot an important one, make sure they want the dog for its own sake, not just to breed and not as a way to get a prefix, but because they really want her for herself. . You don't need to own a bitch on mains register or any register for that matter to apply for a prefix. Lots of people apply for a prefix before they even own a dog .Some people actually have a litter on the way or born before they apply as they still have time to do the test and register the pups within the time frames required. I have actually helped someone register their litter when they didn't have a prefix when the pups were born in recent times.There are hundreds of people who own registered prefixes who dont own a purebred dog especially in Victoria. If someone had demanded I already have a prefix before they sold me a dog I may not have ever become a breeder back 40 years ago. Depending on what else you have to say for yourself and how it feels I will sell a dog on main register in fact I even sell them when the new owner isnt sure they will want to breed with it in the future and its just a might. I assess any dog going out as to what it may do to the gene pool if it is used for breeding and if its someone who wants to have a go at breeding I give them a good dog which will not do the breed any harm and help them every step of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Can you link to this new rule, I've not seen it and can't find anything about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRG Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Agree with you Steve. "Never be mean with your bloodstock, you never know when you might need it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Maybe then those dormant prefixes need to be culled from the system, if they were never used to produce a dog under that prefix and the member owning the prefix is no longer an active ANKC member using their prefix in another legitimate way(such as it being part of their identification as a trainer working towards dog sports or whatever) their prefix simply becomes null and is then available to be used by someone or for something very similar to be used. This already happens although you can, for a fee, protect a prefix for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 You don't need to own a bitch on mains register or any register for that matter to apply for a prefix. Glad you are so sure of that, on other groups there is a suggestion that has changed for NSW and looking at their website the wording is certainly ambiguous. I suggested the op ring Dogs NSW in her other thread to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 I have just spoken to DogsNSW and can confirm that the requirement is now that you must own a bitch on main register BEFORE applying for your prefix. I asked about using Josie and even told them that she was neutered and was told I can still use her to attain my prefix. :) So good news for me but hard for anyone who doesn't already own a bitch, now I have to work out which box all her paperwork is in LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggy mum Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Congrats to you!! I hope you get your first choice of prefix!! Fingers crossed... Edited January 14, 2014 by iggy mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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