Breeding And Rescuing

[Loving my Oldies]

Personally, I seek a balance somewhere between living the good life and not wasting the planet's resources faster than they can be replaced.

Unfortunately, the few million who care cannot counteract the few billion who don't.

Not that all those who care shouldn't keep trying.

[D'smum]

If the registered breeders stop breeding, what will we be left with? Nothing but poor bloodlines and substandard puppies bred in a backyard by a feral that forgot to desex his staffies ( most likely brother and sister). Im all for "incentives" to desex-i very often see the ugly, ugly side of undesexed pets (bitches left to die because owners couldnt afford a consultation, much less a caesarian, puppies fed on aldi adult dog food and suffering chronic malnourishment, the disgusting list goes on).

Its easy when you are involved heavily with this stuff to cry out for mandatory desexing. If it werent for a few good friends i have that breed responsibly I may have by now completely lost my plot and become a crazy campaigner for desexing everything almost at birth. We need a happy medium. A way that encourages quality dogs but keeps the "accidental" numbers down. I wish i had the answer. I wish i had the answer every time some bogan brings in their bitch thats had a puppy stuck for 2 days then tells you to let her die because they dont get paid til thursday. It breaks my heart into smaller pieces every time.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

If the registered breeders stop breeding, what will we be left with? Nothing but poor bloodlines and substandard puppies bred in a backyard by a feral that forgot to desex his staffies ( most likely brother and sister). Im all for "incentives" to desex-i very often see the ugly, ugly side of undesexed pets (bitches left to die because owners couldnt afford a consultation, much less a caesarian, puppies fed on aldi adult dog food and suffering chronic malnourishment, the disgusting list goes on).

Its easy when you are involved heavily with this stuff to cry out for mandatory desexing. If it werent for a few good friends i have that breed responsibly I may have by now completely lost my plot and become a crazy campaigner for desexing everything almost at birth. We need a happy medium. A way that encourages quality dogs but keeps the "accidental" numbers down. I wish i had the answer. I wish i had the answer every time some bogan brings in their bitch thats had a puppy stuck for 2 days then tells you to let her die because they dont get paid til thursday. It breaks my heart into smaller pieces every time.

Yep. I have a couple of relatives who have been sucked into the "rescue is best, breeders suck!" campaign. I rescue, but my question for those who "hate all breeders" is: where do family dogs come from in an ideal world?. Because in an ideal world they don't come from people who don't set money aside for vet care and health testing.

[*kirty*]

I came across a new group on facebook tonight called Breeders And Rescuers United (B.A.R.U.) - looks good. :)

[indigirl]

As a reg breeder who runs a breed rescue I have come up against the anti breeder sentiment with other rescuers before. I generally just laugh and shake my head at their ignorance. Unfortunately even some rescuers I really respect have an underlying resentment of breeders, it's frustrating but what can you do? I try to ignore it as best I can. I find it ironic given that its a breed rescue where do the ppl in breed rescue think their breed comes from?

[corvus]

The way purebred dogs are spoken about amongst registered breeders you would think they have the power to produce perfect dogs at will. I think it maybe leaves people with unrealistic expectations. A dog park regular who is a beautifully responsible and super attentive dog owner has a dog with some kind of hip problem that developed when she was about a year old. I have never asked details, but the owner harbours bubbling resentment towards the registered breeder they bought the dog from. They did heaps of research and thought they were doing the right thing by buying from a registered breeder. I presume they were under the impression that this should guarantee a healthy dog. It's easy to end up jaded and bitter if the product doesn't live up to the hype.

[BJean]

The way purebred dogs are spoken about amongst registered breeders you would think they have the power to produce perfect dogs at will. I think it maybe leaves people with unrealistic expectations. A dog park regular who is a beautifully responsible and super attentive dog owner has a dog with some kind of hip problem that developed when she was about a year old. I have never asked details, but the owner harbours bubbling resentment towards the registered breeder they bought the dog from. They did heaps of research and thought they were doing the right thing by buying from a registered breeder. I presume they were under the impression that this should guarantee a healthy dog. It's easy to end up jaded and bitter if the product doesn't live up to the hype.

I guess that's because the owner also believes common hype that hips are a genetic problem and not an environmental problem foremost. It's difficult for vets to give objective information also, so much of veterinary advice is based on veterinary products supplied by veterinary big business.

Its fascinating to be back at university and amongst the next generation of veterinary hopefuls.

So earnest and for the most part so very green and not much practical idea.

Most puppy homes should start looking at themselves, what they feed their dog, the weight of their dog, and the lifestyle of their dog.

Breeders also need to look at the dog they breed and the home they are sending their puppies.

Edited April 3, 2013 by lilli

[Salukifan]

The way purebred dogs are spoken about amongst registered breeders you would think they have the power to produce perfect dogs at will. I think it maybe leaves people with unrealistic expectations. A dog park regular who is a beautifully responsible and super attentive dog owner has a dog with some kind of hip problem that developed when she was about a year old. I have never asked details, but the owner harbours bubbling resentment towards the registered breeder they bought the dog from. They did heaps of research and thought they were doing the right thing by buying from a registered breeder. I presume they were under the impression that this should guarantee a healthy dog. It's easy to end up jaded and bitter if the product doesn't live up to the hype.

Of course blaming the breeder is an easy to absolve yourself of any responsiblity for your dog's condition. Allowing your puppy to free exercise with bigger dogs for as long as it wanted in a public dog park could potentially lead to ligament problems for a start. Yes, there are definitely congenital hip issues but exercise and nutrition also play a part. However if the breeder blew them off, then I can understand their resentment. With ambassadors like that, no wonder the purebred dog world has a poor PR record.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[~Anne~]

Sadly, with the illogical push to desex everything that moves and to not breed, we will continue to reduce the gene pool and do untold damage to the canine world. Effectively all this will achieve is an increase in cross breeds and a decrease in purebreds I believe because idiots will still allow their dogs to randomly breed, the responsible will all have desexed dogs and the breeder will have given up trying to do the right thing and will then be forced to desex their dogs.

As for the topics of breeders and rescuers working together, a friend posted this the other day on FB. It's heartening to see some people trying to work together.

https://www.facebook.com/BreedersAndRescuersUnited?ref=ts&fref=ts

Edited April 3, 2013 by ~Anne~

[mita]

The way purebred dogs are spoken about amongst registered breeders you would think they have the power to produce perfect dogs at will. I think it maybe leaves people with unrealistic expectations. A dog park regular who is a beautifully responsible and super attentive dog owner has a dog with some kind of hip problem that developed when she was about a year old. I have never asked details, but the owner harbours bubbling resentment towards the registered breeder they bought the dog from. They did heaps of research and thought they were doing the right thing by buying from a registered breeder. I presume they were under the impression that this should guarantee a healthy dog. It's easy to end up jaded and bitter if the product doesn't live up to the hype.

That's an over-generalisation that's plain wrong. In the 3 breeds we've had a lot to do with, there's a realistic view among the majority of registered breeders about health and functioning issues.

It's reflected in activities like having an international working party on health .... with representatives from participating countries (including Australia). In another, the breed club was headed by a registered breeder who was also an experienced science educator. In yet another, in a breed where deafness was a risk, the state breed club cooperated with UQ & researchers in human hearing problems to investigate means of trying to reduce risk .... & to deal with it.

DOL forum posts often contain laments from registered breeders re unrealistic public expectations & perceptions about producing dogs that will remain 'perfect' throughout life. They're right that there can be magical thinking that there's God-like control over every ailment, known & unknown. God-like control doesn't exist for human medical care.

Any owner who believes that buying from a registered breeder is the sole variable that 'should guarantee a healthy dog' needs a short, sharp course in science. What can be done, is to try to reduce risk .... but there's no such thing as 'no risk at all'. And frankly, the majority of registered breeders I've come across, have had the intelligence to know that difference.

Edited April 5, 2013 by mita

[Sheridan]

The way purebred dogs are spoken about amongst registered breeders you would think they have the power to produce perfect dogs at will. I think it maybe leaves people with unrealistic expectations. A dog park regular who is a beautifully responsible and super attentive dog owner has a dog with some kind of hip problem that developed when she was about a year old. I have never asked details, but the owner harbours bubbling resentment towards the registered breeder they bought the dog from. They did heaps of research and thought they were doing the right thing by buying from a registered breeder. I presume they were under the impression that this should guarantee a healthy dog. It's easy to end up jaded and bitter if the product doesn't live up to the hype.

Really? Who are these registered breeders? I've never come across such a breeder and I doubt whether people other than you have.

[persephone]

There is no 'perfection' guarantee with any living organism .... and to expect otherwise is unrealistic

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I was refused adoption on the grounds that I had an undesexed show dog. This was at a popular shelter. I found it incredible.

That's the policy of a number of rescue groups and done with the best of intentions. It can't be one rule for one and one for another. Whilst your showdog may be beautifully behaved, any undesexed male/female purebred/crossbred may not welcome a male/female friend and an owner may not be experienced enough to spot signs of problems.

Given the choice, I will not rehome to this situation either.

Some breeders are good, others are not - this goes for rescuers too.

I have issues with breeders who won't take their own dogs back and leave it to rescue to sort it out or leave them in the pound because the pound has a desexing policy. I have issues with those that breed vast quantities of animals and don't enrich the quality of the lives their breeding dogs have and just breed from them every single season until they are worn out.

I'd take a guess that some breeders' dogs suffer ailments that don't get attended to - either in a timely manner or at all - because no one notices those little changes in behaviour perhaps that in a normal home, would be spotted much earlier or perhaps they just don't want to spend the money on vet bills for a dog that won't be useful for anything in a year or two.

I also have issues with breeders that don't do good rehomings - ie an expensive purebred puppy going into a loft apartment with 2 owners who work fulltime and then have things on after work ... or a long lived breed puppy going to owners in their mid 70s, or a puppy being flown to a home with no fencing whose previous 3 dogs died on the road. Those are just a few examples, wouldn't want to bore anyone.

Edited April 4, 2013 by dogmad

[ish]

I was refused adoption on the grounds that I had an undesexed show dog. This was at a popular shelter. I found it incredible.

That's the policy of a number of rescue groups and done with the best of intentions. It can't be one rule for one and one for another. Whilst your showdog may be beautifully behaved, any undesexed male/female purebred/crossbred may not welcome a male/female friend and an owner may not be experienced enough to spot signs of problems.

Given the choice, I will not rehome to this situation either.

What??!!

Edited April 4, 2013 by ish

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I was refused adoption on the grounds that I had an undesexed show dog. This was at a popular shelter. I found it incredible.

That's the policy of a number of rescue groups and done with the best of intentions. It can't be one rule for one and one for another. Whilst your showdog may be beautifully behaved, any undesexed male/female purebred/crossbred may not welcome a male/female friend and an owner may not be experienced enough to spot signs of problems.

Given the choice, I will not rehome to this situation either.

What??!!

You need this explained?

[ish]

Yes, please explain your theory on entire dogs being less accepting of other dogs

[Rebanne]

I was refused adoption on the grounds that I had an undesexed show dog. This was at a popular shelter. I found it incredible.

That's the policy of a number of rescue groups and done with the best of intentions. It can't be one rule for one and one for another. Whilst your showdog may be beautifully behaved, any undesexed male/female purebred/crossbred may not welcome a male/female friend and an owner may not be experienced enough to spot signs of problems.

Given the choice, I will not rehome to this situation either.

What??!!

You need this explained?

Actually I found your whole post offensive to breeders. Plenty of desexed dogs don't want a friend either and as for the rest of your dribble, what a load of crock

[Rebanne]

I'd take a guess that some breeders' dogs suffer ailments that don't get attended to - either in a timely manner or at all - because no one notices those little changes in behaviour perhaps that in a normal home, would be spotted much earlier or perhaps they just don't want to spend the money on vet bills for a dog that won't be useful for anything in a year or two.

of course we all know a person buying a dog from a rescue/shelter/pound would never ever be guilty of any of the above.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I'd take a guess that some breeders' dogs suffer ailments that don't get attended to - either in a timely manner or at all - because no one notices those little changes in behaviour perhaps that in a normal home, would be spotted much earlier or perhaps they just don't want to spend the money on vet bills for a dog that won't be useful for anything in a year or two.

of course we all know a person buying a dog from a rescue/shelter/pound would never ever be guilty of any of the above.

Now you are changing the subject but of course you are right, there are plenty of people out there who neglect their pets otherwise rescue wouldn't be so busy and there wouldn't be so many dogs euthanased.

I have plenty of experience of undesexed females and males interacting with other dogs.

[Rebanne]

I'd take a guess that some breeders' dogs suffer ailments that don't get attended to - either in a timely manner or at all - because no one notices those little changes in behaviour perhaps that in a normal home, would be spotted much earlier or perhaps they just don't want to spend the money on vet bills for a dog that won't be useful for anything in a year or two.

of course we all know a person buying a dog from a rescue/shelter/pound would never ever be guilty of any of the above.

Now you are changing the subject but of course you are right, there are plenty of people out there who neglect their pets otherwise rescue wouldn't be so busy and there wouldn't be so many dogs euthanased.

I have plenty of experience of undesexed females and males interacting with other dogs.

you changed the subject by deciding to have a crack at breeders, not me. And you wonder why some breeders won't work with rescue.